Bottom-wiping

[PrettyCandles]

At what age are children's arms long enough for them to be physically able to wipe their own bottoms?

They are born with arms long enough they just don't have the physical coordination ...

I don't think they are. Ask a 6yo to reach over their head with their right hand to touch their left ear - most can do it. No 3yo can.

No doubt co-ordination comes into it as well.

Don't know

DD1 has been effectively doing it since about 4

DD2 3.3 wouldn't manage for sure (can wipe after wees but poo? No Way!)

PrettyCandles the arms only grow in proportion to the growth of the rest of the body - a baby can and does reach it's bottom with it's hands.
Only the coordination and control is lacking.
and the ear thing - 3 year olds can do it

Lack of co-ordination and control may be the reason, but it's still easier if your arms and legs are longer and stronger and your hands are bigger! For one thing, it's easier to reach for the toilet paper without falling off the toilet... Of course it's harder for a small child to balance on a toilet seat, tear big bits of toilet paper off the roll without ripping it, contort his body so that his hands can get to his bottom and then throw the paper back down the toilet, rather than wiping it over the seat or dropping it on the floor - all whilst his legs still can't reach the floor, or possibly even the step up to the toilet. You don't need half so much ability to be able to do it when you are a larger child or a grown up. And as for getting off the toilet to wipe your bottom - a thoroughly unpleasant experience, even for a grown up, as you have to get yourself in a very silly position to open up your bottom cheeks sufficiently to get the paper in there comfortably... I think we should give small children the respect they deserve if they can achieve this far from simple act.

3 year olds have bigger heads in proportion to their bodies than 6 year olds. My 1 year old can reach to fiddle with his willy so I would imagine his arms would be long enough to wipe his own bum although of course I don't expect him to be able to yet!

I have done a little experiment on my two children (!). My 5 and a half year old can reach his hand down to his bottom and round almost as far as his willy via his back. His just 4-year old brother's hand cannot reach nearly that far (although he can bottom wipe, as he is well co-ordinated). I can also testify that when my 5.5 year old was 3 or 4, his hand could not reach as far round his anatomy as it can now - having tried pulling his arm to make it reach far round enough to wipe his bottom at that age... and realised that he just couldn't reach without twisting his bottom back towards his hand and up a bit to the side...

Conclusion: children's arms and legs do not grow exactly in proportion with their torsos and their arms ARE a better length for bottom wiping when they are older. SO THERE.

By rabbitstew Sun 22-Nov-09 13:54:05

Conclusion: children's arms and legs do not grow exactly in proportion with their torsos and their arms ARE a better length for bottom wiping when they are older. SO THERE.

Unfortunately your conclusion isn't supported by medical fact.

So is it imagination that newborn babies' hands, as well as their heads, seem proportionately very large in comparison to the rest of their bodies, then? Or is it in fact the case that, along with the skull, not all parts of the body grow at proportionately the same speed as others??? And then there's the issue of the thigh bone being proportionately longer in comparison to the shin bones in people who have been better nourished in the womb and in childhood??? Surely all this points to the fact that bones, etc, in arms, hands, legs, torsos, etc, do not all grow at the same rates and that the ratios can change???.... Is it really stated medical fact that this is not the case?

At birth a baby's head is almost adult size and grows very little BUT torso and limbs are proportionate and develop proportionally over a period of 15-20 years.

Feeling pernickety here (translate as bored...). More or less proportionate, or totally in proportion? Only slight changes, after all, could actually make quite a big difference to things like bottom wiping ability... There are so many natural variables in the population when it comes to torso length as a ratio of arm or leg length, that I find it quite hard to believe that these ratios are absolutely set in stone from the moment of birth for every person. But then it is Sunday and the weather's rubbish outside, so I've been stuck indoors all day, going quietly mad.

Has someone really taken the time to do a proper scientific study on this, or did someone at some point just say that it looked like small babies were born pretty much in proportion apart from their heads and leave it at that?!

Babies' limbs are not in the same proprotion to their bodies as childrens' or adults' limbs. Compare babygros in newborn and 6m sizes. The bodies are only about 20% longer, whereas the arms and legs are nearly 50% longer. The puberty growth spurt has a huge effect on arm and leg length, and bodies have to 'catch up' later - hence the gangly, long-limbed look of young-to-mid-teens.

Granted better co-ordination and ballance are required to wipe after a poo, but anus is also slightly further away than penis.

The ratio of torso to limb length (and the length of the short-long bones) changes during the course of development until adulthood.

Thank you, PrettyCandles and Acinonyx...

I've just asked my 3 year old to do the touch the ear test. She can't do it.

Agree, that bottom wiping is a difficult task - I'd rather wipe my 6year olds bottom, than have poo smeared all over the toilet (reaching for paper)...need I go on ?

The proprtions aren't the same for all children, either. Dd had very short legs in proportion to a long body; made her look like a little dachshund.

at this thread!

FWIW do you know that men's ears and your nose are the only things that keep growing throughout their life (don't think women's do!)?

Did you know that in the 19th century they used guage whether a child was old enough to become an apprentice in the cotton mills by whether they were able to raise their arms and reach an elbow over the top of their heads? Apparently they can't do this before about 7 years.

They used to use the arm-over-head-to-touch-ear thing as a guide as to whether a child was ready for school.

I always put flushable toilet wipes (NOT baby wipes) next to the toilet and encourage mine to use them.

Ok just to broaden the question ... about what age are children old enough to wipe their own bottoms then? I can't wait til my son can!

both of mine learnt a few weeks before starting school, so I think the average age is about 5 or nearly 5.

did you know that you are as long as the measurement from your index finger to the other one if you stretch your arms out? We've testing this as it is true!

The physical ability to reach is not necessarily matched by the technical ability! My 6 year old regularly has skids in her undies, as I'm sure I did at that age, but it is something of a rarity for me at 42 !!

My 3 year old may be able to reach but I wouldn't run the risk of letting her wipe anything other than wee.

Depends what you mean by "old enough to wipe their own bottoms". If you mean without making a hideous mess all over themselves and the room, it's best to wait until they're at least 3. If you want them to be able to do it reasonably competently, with the occasional mess-up, then wait until 4 or 5. And if you want to be able to argue with the unwilling but otherwise physically competent that they really ought to be able to do it by themselves by now, then maybe 6. I think in reality it's a slow progression, from helping them to do it, to checking they've done it OK and finishing off for them, to just leaving them to get on with it and deal with the occasional skid mark and smeared toilet, to not thinking about it. And different mothers set different standards for acceptable bottom wiping, so different ages must apply to factor this in, depending on your general disgust levels - and the general stubbornness of your child, who may happily sit on a toilet for over an hour in order to avoid wiping his own bottom...