Probably very daft question (!) but wondering whether a baby's birth experience affects their behaviour?

[barbareebaa]

Just a ponder really. Ds was quite battered when he eventually arrived - dr tried to turn him as he was stuck - back to back and quite large (9lb 7) . Ventouse broke and then eventual forceps. Ds had friction type burn around neck I think from dr trying to rotate, big bruise on his head and damage on his face from forceps.

He has always been extremely clingy, never wanted to be put down has always taken naps on me, we co-sleep, he used to scream in his pram.

He is now nearly a year old and he's still clingy - have never noticed separation anxiety phase kicking in as he's always been like this!!

Anyway just wondered if babies can have psychological damage due to birth trauma. My mum always said that I was extremely chilled out (compared to my sis and bro)as a baby because it was an 'easy' birth.

Thanks

Well Cranial Osteopaths would agree. They often treat small babies for trauma due to birth experience. They can work wonders for colicky babies, or those with wry neck etc. If you think what a baby has to go through to be born - including the bones of the skull sliding over each other and the neck being bent far back.

I'm not sure if it extends to psychological problems, though some of the Osteopath literature I read did indicate this. Something along the lines of the birth trauma causes colicky symptoms, the baby is fussy and unsettled, this develops into a toddler who can't concentrate etc.

I did notice a difference in mine in the early weeks.

DD1 was a badly managed ventouse and I was warned by the MWs that she would have a dreadful headache for the first 2 weeks. She screamed for the first two weeks and then was very difficult to get to sleep after - screaming at 2am etc.

DD2 managed to come out all by herself and was much easier in the first two weeks. We were very relieved that we wouldn't have another screaming newborn... until DH went back to work after paternity leave and she was very difficult to get to sleep, screamed at 2am etc. So much for our "easier time".

After the baby stage I haven't noticed any distinct differences. They are two different children, obviously, but I wouldn't like to attribute DD1's sensitivity to her birth, any more than DD2's temper.

I do wonder if it's easy to slip into a habit of treating children differently, according to their births though. I know that I was much more stressed out after DD1's birth as I was also damaged, and took a very long time to heal. Plus once you're dealing with a child that screams a lot, maybe you tend to tune it out a bit more. I sometimes feel guilty that DD1 couldn't have the same birth as DD2, but I know that's just regular common old garden Mum-guilt. I tried my best with both deliveries and was just a bit more lucky with DD2.

That's interesting Lionstar. I wonder if there is anything that can be done to help the toddlers? Is it something they just grow out of?
Do you think Cranial Osteopathy would help older babies? Ds could only face one way for quite a few months when lying on his back - rectified once he got more mobile.
Thanks for responding!

Hi,

Interesting as I was just discussing this with my midwife and also my very good friend (who happens to be trained nurse)... My midwife firmly believes that the second baby is usually more chilled out as mummies are generally more relaxed with their second. DS1 was a real screamer from day one - my hospital stay was very traumatic as I remembered him not settling at all unlike other newborns who slept most of the time (so how could that be due to me being stressed when he was like that from the moment he was born!). However, the midwife said that was because he was a ventouse delivery and probably had a headache for a while after that... DS2 (born 11 days ago!) seems very chilled out so far... I cannot believe how much free time I have during the day, with DS1, he couldn't be settled and I had no time to do ANYTHING! DS2 hardly cries, only cries when he's hungry, once fed, he usually sleeps or just sits back and looks around. Interestingly DS was born with his membranes intact, which is rare and apparently is the gentlest way to get born as they don't go through the full trauma of having to go through birth canal etc.

My friend has two DDs and contrary to popular belief, her DD1 was a dream baby and a really good toddler while her DD2 was a nightmare from birth, cried a lot, very colicky, (very clingy and still is at almost 2 years old!) and very feisty and sensitive despite her doing everything the same as with her DD1. Her DD1 was born via c-section and her DD2 was born with ventouse so maybe there is a connection?

Apparently, cranial osteopathy works best when they are little babies. If you are going to try it, I suggest you go for a personal recommendations, not all cranial osteopaths know how to work with babies, I took DS1 to one and it didn't really help so it wasn't the magic solution I had hoped for! Mind you, DS1 is a happy and confident little thing now despite his difficult start...

for DD1 and your experience MrsTittlemouse. A headache for 2 weeks. Crikey.
I totally agree with what you are saying about how your behaviour affects your baby's and the guilt etc. I do feel guilty that I asked for forceps and that I am responsible for his injuries - I failed. I know that this isn't rational but deep deep down the guilt lingers. They also discovered 3 days after the birth that I needed a blood transfusion. The mw told me sfter they expected me to have a heart attack or stroke. This must have had some affect on how I behaved in the early days. OOf guilt.
I am so glad that your second daughters birth was 'easier'. I am hoping that if I have another baby that I would be able give birth without intervention.

Congratulations Angel on your new arrival! Amazing that he was born with membranes intact - wow! It must be so much nicer being born that way! I am glad you are having such a lovely time with him
Your experience with ds1 sounds a lot like mine - I have also thought that surely his behaviour can't be entirely down to me as he was like this from day 1!!
Interesting to read about your friends experiences too. I would be interested to see if other people have found a connection between behaviour and ventouse?

I think osteopaths will work with toddlers too, and even older children to relieve the problems from birth trauma. Though obviously it is better to treat them as young as possible. I agree to find personal recommendations for a good practitioner. What you said about only lying one way is definately something an osteopath could help with.

Our experience (after 2 sessions) is that the colicky symptoms have been relieved (screaming in pain for hours each evening) . However DS has not turned into the perfect settled baby overnight - he still screams and keeps us awake at all hours, but we are very thankful that he doesn't seem to be in huge discomfort.

Not sure about this.
DS was 9lb 15. forceps, ventouse broke also(were we at same hosp?!!) Looked very battered.And spent 4 days in neonatal
Bless him, he is now 2, the loveliest, happiest friendliest little boy.Very lively and never sits still, but he gets that from his dad!
My mum had a simliar delivery with me. 9lb 3, and I think I could be described as relaxed!

however I have homeopath friend, who believes that the birth trauma very much affects everything

This is so interesting - my DS4 was also a ventouse delivery...he was 20 days late - I knew when he was conceived to the day because I later realised that when I was about 10 days pregnant with him I had a cone biopsy.....I spent every day of my pregnancy worrying that I had harmed him.

He didn't sleep through the night until he was 5 years old despite all our best efforts. He was a really sad little baby and cried a lot.

Someone at Manchester University was doing a study about babies who didn't sleep and I remember watching him on GMTV and he said that at least 90% of the babies on the study he was doing had experienced a traumatic birth.

This is really interesting.

Physically, DD2 (DC3) was a tremendously easy birth - just popped out.

Her first 12 weeks at home she just screamed constantly. I was convinced there was something wrong with her!

MW mentioned at the time that such a quick birth could be traumatic for a newborn and put her constant crying down to that.

She is now a happy, smiley 3 yo btw.

DS4 is now 12 years old - as bright as a button and, as I post this message, is still awake despite having gone to bed at 9pm!!!!! He used to say, when he was about 3, 'I hate going to sleep, its soooooooo boring - who invented it????' LOL

Barbareebaa, you have to get yourself an appointment at the Foundation for Paediatric Osteopathy in London (Islington-way).

Without a doubt, they sorted ds's head leaning. Didn't seem to do much for dd and her waking through the night (but I only went once or twice) - she was ventouse delivery, but she was also a happy little dream baby. Ds is pretty chilled too really, better since the osteopathy but could be just time too.

However, it's donations only, so worth a shot. They are also qualified nurses or doctors before they train in Osteopathy. Which means they briefly check them over medically too (and are very reassuring and listen to you, which IMO is v underrated in the medical profession).

Agree that generally subsequent babies are prob chilled out because mum is too! We were more chilled out with dd I think - with ds we sort of panicked that we should know what we were doing!

i have 2 ds, ds1 was 1 week overdue, a c section 9lb 7.5oz(got stuck) was a bit colicky but usually very chilled and contnted and when we got into a routine at about 4 months slept really well. Lots of friends/family comented in the early weeks that they couldn't believe how chilled we all were. he's now nearly 4 and still sleeps well and is generally happy although he does seem quite sensitve.
ds2 was 4 days early, forceps delivary and although i thought i was quite chilled with him aswell im not sure i was as chilled as with ds1, ds2 has never slept well(now 15 months) and had some problems feeding(bf) and is quite clingy.
its interesting as im not sure which birth would the most traumatic, section or forceps. for me the section was more stressful as i was in a lot of pain after and didn't have a very good postnatal hospital stay.

Thanks for all your responses - haven't been able to get on today as dh takes laptop to work (meany!)
Has been so interesting to read your experiences. There does seem to be some connection between the birth and the baby's behaviour. I was really shocked to read that babies can have headaches after a ventouse - that explains so much. Also really interesting about the study at Manchester University.
Reading your responses has kind of lifted a weight off. I have had tons of criticism about the way I have been parenting - that I am molly coddling, he has me 'wrapped around his little finger', using me as a dummy blaaaaaah blah etc. But I think if he was uncomfortable from day one then that kind of explains why we are how we are - not just my 'rubbish' parenting.
Thank you for the advice on the osteopathy too. I will look into that further.

P.s. would still be interested to read any other experiences

I had tons of criticism - mainly from my mum - about my super clingy dd. Her birth was straightforward, but with a 2 hour second stage as the cord was round her neck. My waters had already gone, so in retrospect, that was an awful lot of pressure on her little head. She cried a lot, sucked a lot, would only sleep on me or on the move until she was 8/9 months and was extremely clingy. My ds's birth was shorter (3 rather than 8 hours) and my waters remained in tact until I was in transition when I asked the midwife to break them and he virtually surfed out. He slept for the first 2 weeks and still at over 5 months barely cries. People say 'oh, but you're more relaxed with the second' etc but they were like that from the moment they were born - they didn't know whether they had sibling or not!

who has been criticising you?? that's terrible

Skinsl - my family, some friends (one friend in particular) I have noted raised eyebrows when people have thought I haven't been looking.
I know deep down that I am doing what I should be and really I can't do much more - I think I read on here someone said 'why is the success of a parent measured on how much distance there is between them and the baby' or something like that. That has been my experience basically - I know in my heart I'm doing what's right for ds but it really irritates me when people say 'you know he won't need to bf when he turns 1' 'has he moved out of your bed yet?' 'he is just using you as a dummy' ' you won't be able to do that with the next one' 'you are building a rod...' [yawn] 'If you gave him a bottle someone else could feed him' 'is he going to sleep on you????'
ooop- ds now on lap!
sorry for that rant!
i think we are doing a softly softly sort of parenting - easy does it. i don't intend to co-sleep forever but will do for as long as it's needed.
rosebud - your dd sounds very much like my ds. i'm sorry for your criticism too. i don't know why people have to say stuff - as if we are not already worrying enough!
sorry - sleeping boy on lap- one hand typing!

God, this is making so much sense. DS went almost 2 weeks overdue, but my waters went about 3 days (i think) before he was actually born. The birth itself was fine (no ventouse or forceps) but from what people have said, he would have had pressure on his head as soon as the waters had gone. No wonder he cried for 3 solid nights after he was born.

I don't mean crying for an hour and then sleeping for a bit. He cried for 10 hours straight for the first 3 nights we had him at home. This explains so much!

btw.. you can't cuddle a newborn too much, dummy's comfort them, and so what you feel is right, x

do what you feel is right, not so (whoops)

not sure I can see the link between the birth and behaviour but that's just my experience, but I really am offended on your behalf that your "friends and family" have criticised you. Everyone is different with their own babies, especially the first born.Jesus it's a lot to get used to! and there is so much info and advice and books and gimmicks. And all babies are different FGS.
I went completely with my instincts for a good 9 months and then when i started to read gina ford or whatever it just complicated things!! Yes they get into bad habits with co-sleeping, too much feeding, whatever but so what its hardly the end of the world!!! Love, attention and cuddles can't hurt them, surely?!!!

don't think it can always be true - a friend of mine had a very bad labour - quick first stage, but second stage lasted 8 hours (!!!!) they wouldn't believe her when she said she was ready to push, but he was crowning but took hours to come out! Proper case for intervention that never happened.

Baby is the most chilled I have ever met. Still has 2 x 2 hours naps at over 2yo.