Longest time out ever and he is still not giving in

[enfield97]

I cannot get my son (4y) to put his raincoat on for school. IThis has been a long standing problem and he always says he will wear it (or any other coat) tommorrow. I always give in. Today I did not and he is now having the longest time out ever: one hour so far. I called the school to say we will be late. He is sitting on the step with no toys. He is not crying but not giving in. I did shout initially but now I am calm and busy doing housework. Any idea how I can make him obey me?

Don't worry, many of us have been there, or somewhere similar. Apologise to him later and tell him you shouldn't have done that, then put it behind you.

The pasta jar may take a while to settle in, but with my very stubborn DS it does work very well. I will threaten to take away a pasta piece if he is misbehaving and also offer him one for doing something I want him to do, such as getting himself dressed. It works because he knows from experience that when it's full he gets a treat, and often he sets his heart on a particular toy (nothing big btw, we're only talking a small lego box that costs £6 or so, or a small action figure) then we discuss it and I remind him that he wants to get to the top of the jar.

I honestly think that with my DS, who is also 4, reasoning and long-term aims really work because they make him feel more grown-up and responsible. It's obvious with your 4yo that a battle of wills is not helping either of you (and I really do know how that feels!). Try some other approaches, they might work brilliantly.

Enfield97 - How about instead of withdrawing privileges, he gains privileges, something to work towards. For example instead of threatening to take something away, you tell him what he can gain.

Getting into the car seat, he was already in a bad mood and so were you.

I know it sounds very Mary Poppins, but how about trying to lighten the mood, a race to the car, a tickle when he goes rigid. Its so easy to get stuck in punishment mode.

Children at 4 dont respond well to direct orders, it turns into a battle of the wills, they are starting to wants some independence. You need to change your behaviour, if you want his to change ifswim.

I agree with some others that it would really help you to let go of the idea that your kids have to obey you. I think it is very obvious to them that they don't. If you take this stand, you will just be made to look a fool. You want them on side, not to be your enemies - you want them to want to be good, because it has a good outcome for them (and I don't just mean rewards and treats, but things like everyone in the family getting on, friends liking them etc.) As they get older they can understand all that.

again thank you all. I am now going to log off and will take your comments on board.

Suggest you read How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will talk, and that you stop expecting your children to 'obey direct orders'. They're people, not dogs to be trained!

Why do so many people giving advice to others about how to communicate with children fail so miserably in communicating reasonably to other adults?!!! (eg "They're people, not dogs to be trained" - how inflammatory is that?!)

Don't stress too much about it. You had a bad day, you snapped, you feel terrible about it. Put it down to experience and try to find ways of coping with his stubborness.

We sometimes have similar problems here, as my DH is of the opinion that sometimes it is necessary for the DC to just do as they are told. He can be quite strict with them and fight battles that I find not worth fighting.

I have had the struggles with the seatbelt and had to use force to get it on, but now just sit in the car and refuse to drive unless DS is strapped in.

In a similar way, I have taken DS to kindergarten in his slippers as he has refused to put his shoes on. (when going in the car).

I tend to be more non-confrontational than DH who expects obedience. It is to do with his father, who is was very strict. My parents were similar to my parenting ideas. DH is improving, now that he sees that it is less stressful to talk to the children.

Whereabouts are you in the Alps, Enfield? We are near Geneva. The weather is miserable today.

that you slapped him in the face.

Re: the car seat thing, I just refuse to play the game if they go rigid. I stand by the car and disengage with them until they get bored (and it doesn't take long now with my two). Worst case scenario is that they start pissing about climbing into the front seats, in which case I continue to ignore them (but sit in the driver's seat to avoid buttons being pressed). They do get bored if you ignore them. Cars are dull places for mucking about.

I have an extremely stubborn dd. I never meant to use time outs but in frustration have 'stood my ground' on occaision - always with disastrous results. Dd NEVER gives in, ever.

The way forward for us has consisted of either rewards or deals - mainly deals. I will do/give x if you do y. Often we negotiate the deal but we can generally find something we can agree on. For example, if dd puts her shoes on for school I will take them off when she comes home - this is because I want her to be good at putting her shoes on which is more difficult. My primary concern is that I know she can do something if I'm not there rather than whether she will IYSWIM.

I often carry dd's coat to and from school. I did have the car seat problem at one stage and did exactly as Eyeoffrogs - but it did sometimes take a LONG time (30 mins on one terrible morning). But it passed.

Stubborn children do not obey without question or without good reason - and why should they? I certainly wouldn't either.