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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

What would possess a child of 5 to be vicious enough to really hurt another child?

63 replies

gebethonson · 14/10/2009 20:18

My Neice came home from school today after another child had dared her to put her finger into a pencil sharpener! She then proceeded to twist my neices arm so that the sharpener cut her finger! I feel really quite sick that a child would even think to do that to another. What next? The teacher told my neice off for putting her finger into the sharpener and there was no mention about the manipulative little bully who egged her on to do it and then twisted her arm to actually cause harm. I really am beside myself. Should the authorities be involved? surely this is not normal behavior and is indicative of something much more sinister?

OP posts:

ShauntheSheep · 15/10/2009 14:35

think this is a total over reaction myself. 5 year old do silly and daft things that end up having bad outcomes. they are rarely 'vicious' and 'nasty' in a deeply thought out way tho they may be quite horrible to each ohter on a spur of the moment level and then all is forgotten the next day.

Bu tto suggest hta people who think that this is an incident that is part of the normal rough and tumble of school are parenting the hooligans of tomorrow well I actually consider that to really nasty.

sickofsocalledexperts · 15/10/2009 14:37

actually I think if you don't give kids firm boundaries about hurting others early on, you are parenting wrongly and creating monsters. Have seen it way too many times with our ridiculous child-centred mums mollycoddling their children ("nice hands, Hugo" etc). They need to be told no more often

seeker · 15/10/2009 14:44

I didn't say the child shouldn't be told off - I said that, without more evidence I wasn't prepared to agree that this was a vicious thing to do and that the child concerned was a potential psychopath!

Bubbaluv · 15/10/2009 14:49

I think only the teacher who was there can decide.
It is quite possible that the other child involved is generally a very sweet, well behaved child who just got carried away by her imagination and thought it would be great for her friend to have a pencil on her hand. In this case what went on would be considered "silly" and the girls should be sat down and told that what they did was SILLY!
On the other hand if the child involved has a history of violence or malicious behaviour then obviously a different approach would be required.
I think that assuming that the child's intentions were "mean" and acting accordingly would be very wrong if that was not the case. It would also be wrong not to discipline a child who had acted meanly.

sickofsocalledexperts · 15/10/2009 15:57

The OP has said that this particular child has been nasty to her niece since pre-school, so there is a history. Of course it does not mean the child in question is a budding psychopath, but nor does it mean that it should be just overlooked as a harmless bit of fun. Kids need boundaries: drawing blood in class is a step too far and the kid involved needs to be deterred from doing that again by some kind of penalty. I think people who believe all 5 year olds are angels are deluded. Children are small human animals who need teaching and guidance about right and wrong. In my child's class two arms have just got broken (2 different incidents ) by a kid whose mum was way too soft on low level violence when he was younger ("kind hands, Rupert" rather than "no, don't do that ever again Rupert and you've lost TV rights for a week"). "Give me the child till he's 7, and I'll show you man(or woman)."

colditz · 15/10/2009 16:05

I'm five foot two inches in my boots, so I'm hardly picking on someone smaller than me (statistically unlikely, anyway).

And IF I think someone is being fucking ridiculous, I have every right to say so.

The op did not come on here saying "I'm an over-reactive nervous wreck, come and tell me I'm right" - she came on asking for an opinion, and she got one. Her wish to "Involve the authorities" was fucking ridiculous and I feel no need whatsoever to apologise, although your concerns have been duly noted and dismissed.

The five year old did something that was naughty. Whether she did it out of spite nor silliness will remain a mystery because we cannot see inside her head. Involving the authorities because of a childish incident is merely showing that you know NOTHING about children.

I have not made a personal comment, and I am within my rights to swear if I feel like it because this is not babycentre - yet.

Oblomov · 15/10/2009 16:09

Is this a particularly bad day for over-reacting ?
I mean the OP is over reacting. Parker is over reacting to colditz's post.
Yes the child needs to be told off. definitely. But that is all. Authorities ? Bullying ? Tomorrow's thugs ? I mean come on. Lets get this into perspective.

Oblomov · 15/10/2009 16:13

Colditz, come pick on BULLY
I am five foot one and a big bit, but I fib and tell people I am 5'2'' !!

OrmIrian · 15/10/2009 16:14

It was silliness. On the part of both children. Nothing else. Please try to calm down.

OrmIrian · 15/10/2009 16:15

"these people on here who say "it's nothing, it's kids just being kids" sounds like the parents of tomorrow's little hooligans to me."

Yep! That's me

OrmIrian · 15/10/2009 16:16

BTW do we have a Pencil Sharpener Authority? DC' school has a Blackboard Monitor.

Lulumama · 15/10/2009 16:21

my children are disciplined, have boundaries, are told 'no, and given punishments where suitable

thinking that there is no need to call the authorities on this 5 year old, when next week, it might be the OPs niece hurting another child, does not mean my chidlren will be hooligans, or that i am blind to their naughtiness, or to the naughtiness of other childrne

bt there is a big difference between a naughty 5 year old testing the boundaries and a vicious psycopath who needs taking in hand by the social services

Lulumama · 15/10/2009 16:24

also, my two children have been brought up in the same environment with the same rules etc

DS was bitten a lot at nursery by another child, and of course i bristled at this , and the mother of this uncontrollable naughty child and was possible a teensy bit smug about my fabulously well behaved child

and then i had DD, who was the biter and it was absolutely devastatingly mortifying. she even bit a client's child which was beyond awful , luckily, she understood what 2 year olds are abotu, and she still booked me as her doula!!

ICANDOTHAT · 15/10/2009 17:07

My son put a staple through his finger when he was five ... wondered what would happen apparently He also cut his cousins finger, on purpose, with a piece of flint when he was six - again, because he wondered what would happen He's now a delightful 13 year old who is mortified when I tell him those stories. Also, I would be very clear on the whole story before wading in on the other child .... experience tells me there are two sides to every story.

Goblinchild · 15/10/2009 17:41

"I don't know what I would do if it ever happened to any of my children. I'd like to think that I would deal with it rationally..."

On current evidence within this thread, it's unlikely that you will.
Many 5 year olds do foolish things with little regard to possible outcomes, and have difficulty empathising with another's feelings.
Remarkably few grow up to be sociopaths and criminals.

parker1313 · 15/10/2009 19:31

I really dont think the op was coming on for anything but advice and not to just be told she is right.
I do though feel that Colditz is rude.
I dont think there is any need to be so blunt and swear like that.
There are polite ways to say its ridiculous.
Im sure the op knows now what she thinks.
It has been blown out of proportion but my issue is that the op is new to this and I think she should of had more of welcome,like maybe a few more questions about the situation and no swearing.
Swearing is fine in a conversation but to direct it straight at the op well what more can I say!!!

Clare123 · 15/10/2009 19:51

Sometimes 5 yrs old still have difficulty really grasping what the outcomes of their behaviour are. Definitely needs a bit of a "chat" with the teacher, but unless this sort of thing happens again I wouldn't make too much of a fuss.

colditz · 15/10/2009 20:45

I don't know.What more can you say?

Iam notunderany obligation to be unfailingly tactful. I thought the point of internet 'problem page' type forums, where you can ask the general public and receive and honest answer, is that you get an honest answer.

Should I have lied? SHould I have directed the OP to the Social Services Child-Snatching Hotline, so that the five year old and her clearly psychopathic parents can be Shown The Error Of Their Ways?

SHould I have gone into the huge amount of detail about child development in appropriate levels of infant impulse control that appears to have been necessary, pulled directly from Google which, I am assuming, is also accessible from the OP's computer should she be arsed to find out? Maybe I should.

But I didn't. I simply expressed my own instant thought - "Oh how fucking ridiculous." That is exactly what went through my head. It will be exactly what goes through the head of many people in "authority" if the OP chooses to report this unfortunate child. SO where is the harm in the OP realising that some people at least will think "You're being fucking ridiculous"?

junglist1 · 15/10/2009 21:00

It could've been nasty. Especially if there's history. There's a spiteful girl at DS school who keeps telling him to do things then reporting him. She's not nice now, and won't be in 5 years. The childs parents need to be involved, and the teacher questioned as to what the childs reaction was. If she was genuinely shocked for example. All too often the manipulators are overlooked IMO

parker1313 · 15/10/2009 21:04

I think you're being ridiculous.
This would been better.
No need to take the michael!!

KERALA1 · 15/10/2009 21:09

Hmmm not sure about the "awful child doomed for life" theory. One of my oldest friends was the most dreadful child. In fact one of my first memories is of her purposely pushing me off a climbig frame so I fell off and cracked my head. She laughed. She turned into a delightful teenager and is now a successful woman, great mum and in a brilliant relationship. Some people are just tricky kids.

StewieGriffinsMom · 15/10/2009 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

colditz · 15/10/2009 22:30

PISS, Parker, no need to take the PISS.

Are you five? Are you not allowed to look at Big Swears?

Jeezus I am getting hugely pissed off with this place. This used to be the ONLY parenting board that didn't treat it's members like feeble minded nine year olds, or expect them to have the delicate sensibilities of Victorian jilted brides.

Piss fuck bollocky bastard fuck.

And no, it's not big, it's not clever, it does nothing to prove a point or raise someone's opinion of me but as far as I am aware I am still allowed to do it! It doesn't mean everyone has to listen, it doesn't even mean anyone SHOULD listen - maybe, in fact, they should start ignoring me now as the most inarticulate oaf they have ever had the misfortune of crossing paths with online - but I am still allowed to do it.

Littlefish · 15/10/2009 23:22

at colditz and the "Big Swears".

JeremyVile · 15/10/2009 23:40

I'd likely think that the arm twisting never happened, though encouragement possibly did, but your niece doesnt want to admit to doing something silly. I just dont see how it would happen in the way described.
However if it did happen that way then I do think it is odd behaviour from the other girl, I do think its pretty nasty. I dont think "authorities" need to be involved but yes, i'd think of this child as a bit of a wrong un, I just would.

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