My 5 Year old is "malicious, nasty and vindictive", says bf. Truble is I think I agree.

[Oblomov]

My ds1 (5.7) has just gone into year one. This morning he said something to me that really shocked me. And saddened me. I was shocked by his thought processes - what had made the brain jump from one thought to another. Mentioned it to very good friend - she has a child in the same class. She and her dh were truely shocked.
We have had alot of bad behaviour over the last year. Not responding to rewards or punishments. I have posted about this before.

What do I do. Talk to the school. Take him to Dr ? I don't trust GP or HV. I don't want 'pyschological damaged' on his school records or anything.
Or maybe I am totally over-reacting. Is not unheard of
What do you think ?

Ds has had a lot of his nintendo ds this weekend. Totally ignored dh when he came home last night, because so engrossed.
Said to him this morning, no ds. just have a break, have it back tomorrow.
said he was really cross.
Then he said "right, I am going to be badly behaved from now on. Just to ruin your day. that will make you really sad"
"Nothing you can do can make me sad"

So, if this is not vindictive and nasty, then what is it ?
And can you be so nasty at aged 5.
This is clearly a child in control, non ? He is a bit too savvy for my liking.

What do I do ?

My ds is an angel at school too (I work in his class a lot so I see it) Then he grows horns when he comes home...

He sounds very bright. He just knows what buttons to push.

No my friend has had ALOT of problems with her son. Temper. Hitting other children, in reception year. But also he has been 'pedestaled' and all the children discussed whether his behaviour had been 'good or bad that day'.
Not the best way to handle it, by the school, possibly.
But I think she thought it was a nasty re-action. which her son hasn't done, in the same way, perhaps.
Not sure.

I'd make a plea for patience with him. I do think computer games can overstimulate kids (and adults!) so he was probably hyped up from that. He doesn't sound like he has a personality disorder, sounds like pretty normal behaviour to me (albeit not very nice and to be discouraged). My dd1 can be a horror at times, but I would never let anyone say a word against her, so I am shocked at your friend's comment. I also agree with electra, try to avoid labelling him as vindictive etc at 5, it really is a vicious cycle for a child as I can remember myself only too clearly.
That's not to say that I don't sympathise as dd1 can push every button some days and I wonder how we both get through it at times!

Don't take parenting advice from your friend.

A lot of children are horrors when they come home from school. It really takes it out of them - behaving, learning, socialising. They also tend to take their temper out on people who they know will always love them, no matter what. It is a compliment, of sorts.

'In fact over dinner, he told me he "controls his behaviour at school, just it that I can't control it at home".'

I think this is very telling. My DS has just moved into Yr2 and for the first time has a strict teacher who is pushing the class hard. He is thriving on it but his behaviour at home has got worse.

I can't believe your friend said that he's malicious and vindictive. I'm shocked at your friend's "support" more than anything tbh

i thought you were going to tell us he was leaving rats in teachers' handbags or taunting children at school.

My dd has told me she hates me. That's not great I know, but if I tell her what her punishment is going to be, she might say, don't care, didn't want a story/biscuit/new jacket... you get the picture. She's not a nasty child. She does know how to push my buttons though, and like all children, she has to grow OUT of selfishness which is the default setting.

DS1 is in Yr1, he is almost the same age as your DS and very often he will say things like this, it's just his way of controlling the situation.

So, if he isn't allowed to watch a certain programme/have a snack/go outside to play football he has said things like:

"Well tomorrow I won't be good all daybecuase you won't let me do what I want" or even trying to bargain:

"Please let me go outside to play and then I will eat all of my dinner".

I don't think it's anything to worry about.
Although I may rethink DS1's planned Christmas present, a DS

My dcs are not very nice if they've had too much screen time (large or small) it sort of puts them in a stupor and a little moody. we've experimented with time of day and they only have the ds toward the end of the day when they're tired but not too close to bed.

OP I think your ds sounds normal. I would question my relationship with any man who would call a child, especially my child, malicious and vindictive.

bf = best frined , not boyfriend,sorry.
Actually it might have been me who intially asked her, "don't you think that is a nasty reaction".
Maybe I set the tone, thus it was my fault

Ah! Best friend who doesn't have dcs?

Never seek advice from parents with very young/older dcs or childless persons!!

No her son is in the same class. and they have plenty of their own problems.

My DS1 has said things like that. He would be sent up to his room and told not to come down until he is ready to apologise. He still has moments of "Well you haven't been nice to me (told him to pick his sweet wrapper off the floor, oh the horror), so I'm not going to be nice to you" and he is 9.

The difference is that I would generally describe him as a lovely, kind, sensitive boy with the occasional blast of self-pity, rage at not getting everything he wants and this-is-everyone's-fault-but-mine, which all need to be overcome.

I think it's horrendous to write off a small child as "malicious, vindictive and nasty." All those things require planning, thought and intent; the incident you described was just him lashing out in anger, saying the first thing that came into his head.

It takes time to develop self-control, with our parents' help. How was yours at 5?

He is 5, he is young and he is just learning the way the world works - you were (imo) unreasonable confiscating his DS,and he responded in a way he knew would make you feel sad.

In actual fact he did put his point out using a very intelligent strategy and that I think should be commended ....what you need to look at is how you respond,initially when he ignored DH you shoud have prompted him to say hello and remind him that its bad manners to be ignorant,you could suggest if he is so intent on the ds that his time is limited.

When he made that comment to you he was reacting in a similar fashion as you had by removing the ds,you prefer it when im nice it makes you happy if i am naughty it makes you sad ...i am sad bcos you took my ds away.

Obviously I am a perfect parent and I havent learnt this the very hard way through personal experience .

DD's little friend regularly tells her mother she wished she lived with her grand parents and not her mum, and then takes things off my DD when she is playing with them just to upset DD.

But the main reason for this is she wants attention because she's never got used to the idea of her baby brother who gets 90% of the parental attention...obviously she prefers granny where she is spoiled and no brother (and no school, as she always goes there in the hols).

So although this behaviour is noxious, it's pretty standard really. Children do think about themselves and their world in a very narrow way and really are not at all mature about things, they want their own way if they can get it...I also think nintendos are the work of the devil as they encourage introspection and narrow mindedness in young children, when children actually need the opposite in order to mature into society.
Find an alternative to the nintendo...any sport or activity really that he enjoys.

Your friend is being a bit harsh, her child will be having really quite similar thought processes!

We went to a christening 2 weeks ago. His general cheekiness and naughtiness, made us leave early. nothing seriously awful just relentless answering back, rudeness etc . petty. but 15 things EVERY day is so wearing. Told him that "we weren't prepared for his bad behaviour to ruin our dayanymore."
Strange how it takes, someone pointing it out to you, and then you writing it down, to realise that OF COURSE it all boils down to how you(i.e ME) have handled situations recently.

He is like me. Black and white. The sweetist most caring person.so caring to ds2(9 months). They are besotted with eachother. Begged for a brother.
Then he is a little shit.
That is how I describe him. black and white, like me. little inbetween. so loving, then a pain. Maybe this is where i am going wrong. imbalanced perception.

he has just come down and apologised. I am typing with 2 boys in my arms, telling him how much I love him.

He is 5 thats his job - love him lots xx.

Thank you everyone.
Just the other day, I was thinking that MN just wasn't the same as it used to be. How I missed Twiggl*t and the likes of her.

But then, you help me in my hour of need.
And I relise how fab it still is. And how much I truely value it and the people on it.
Like Flowery, who has helped me once AGAIN.
Thanks alot.

AW, glad all is well, Oblov

My DS1 is very deep and will brood and bottle stuff up, but very cheeky at the moment, he answers back constantly.

DS2 is like your DS, very black and white, he is only 3.5yrs, so I am dreading the future tbh!

Enjoy your cuddles

A friend at the school gates recently told me, which I aim to adopt in my home, is that her dcs have staggered bedtimes and every she gets into bed for ten minutes with each child. They are allowed to discuss anything and she finishes with a few reasons why she loves them which ends with ....because I do and always will.

I would take away the nintendo completely and force real play, running around, fresh air, creative play at home, and reading. nintendo makes children really tense because they have to focus continuously and concentrate for too long even if the game is innocuous and has no violence. They can't do it without tensing up and when they're tense they can't get 'down' from that.

ds and i do alot of reading. and alot of riding his bike. and he plays int he communal garden attached to our house most days.but he does love tv,dvd's and ds alot. worryingly so.

we do normally have one hour of tv or ds each day.

on days when i have had a diabetic hypo, he has been known to watch tv all day. for 8 hours until dh returns. he thinks this is heaven.

but i do not think this is unusual for alot of 5 year olds.

See now I disagree with mathanxiety I think in this age its important for children to have access to all levels of play,and whilst outside and fresh air play is fantastic sometimes we are just not in a position to allow this and children these days do have technology and should be taught to use it.

tbh I don't think there is anything you can do in terms of parenting that will ensure that your 5yo never says anything that will sound shocking from an adult perspective

the whole point is that he is not coming at it from an adult perspective

he is a 5yo

they need to work through their teens (a horribly self-pitying and dramatic stage) before they become adults

and I would strongly question the motives of this friend