problem with dd2 - creating reasons for tantrums?

[silverfrog]

I have 2 dds - dd1 is 4.10 and ASD and dd2 is 2.5, and (we think) NT.

dd2 hit 2 with a bang, and (literally on her birthday) started having huge control freakery tantrums.

we thought she was just being 2, and still do think that mostly. she does have a few ASD traits, but we are not massively worried atm.

anyway, she has got into the habit of creating issues for a tantrum - where she will ask for something, then when it is given refuse it, then scream over not having it, but when brought back scream over not wanting it, etc.

eg when at lunch, after main meal the dds get fruit. today, dd1 asked for banana, so I went to get one. dd2 says (quite nicely, but with a bit of an edge) "no banana for dd2" so I didn't giver her any (having acknowledged what she said)

she started screaming for banana, as thoguh I had not let her have one.

stifling my sighs, I went to get her one. as soon as she saw it, she went ballistic, screaming "no banana!".

I take it away, she screams for it.

and so on.

what should I do? this doesn't just happen for food, it can be for anything.

last night she set up the most awful noise after they went to bed (dds share a room)because she wanted a toy car. no big deal (what do I care if she wants a car in her cot?), I gave it to ehr (I currently have to wait outside the dds room until they are asleep as dd1 having sleep issues). she screamed because it was there, setting dd1 off as dd1 having noise sensitivity issues atm.

2 hours later I finally calmed them both down (well, actually, dh came home and they shut up as soon as they saw him ).

the car issue (as in whether dd2 wanted the damn thing in the first place) was never solved.

I am guilty of being more lenient with dd2 than dd1 (partly second child, partly if dd2 has a tantrum then dd1 joins in, and on the whole that is best avoided) but usually in minor things. she also has so much of her life that is regimented (for ASD reasons) that she does get more lee-way than dd1 does/did on some things

this level of control freak 2 year old, where I can't do right for doing wrong, is really wearing me out.

I've no real advice i'm afraid but just wanted to let you know my daughter did a variation on this at about that age -
she would be asked if she wanted something and even if she did would say 'no' with a resulting meltdown when i took her at her word
She sometimes now (age 4) will try and start an argument by saying 'i don't want chicken for dinner' as if i'd just said 'we're having chicken for dinner' when in fact i'd not said anything about it at all - her comment comes just out of the blue at a totally random time - in the bath or something!! She'll even try and carry on the argument so if i say - 'well dinner was ages ago - you're going to bed now' (totally puzzled!) she'll still keep going on about it.

I ignore it basically and when she was small either didn't ask too many yes/no answer questions so she couldn't choose 'no!' when meaning yes or just took her 'no' as meaning 'no' and ignored the resulting tantrum!

thanks.

I do try to avoid yes/no type questions (second nature, as can't use the, with dd1 either as she has a langugae delay)

It is when it is soemthing she asks for herself which she then refuses that ti really gets to me.

It is a total no-win situation.

eg last night, when she asked for the car. If I hadn't given it to her, she would have had a tantrum. I gave it to her and she had a tantrum anyway.

dd1 was easy compared to this (autism included!)

Lol!

I know what you mean and i think it is just a stage as it certainly rings bells with how my dd was. I think it's a weird kind of control thing! They aren't going to be happy with either outcome so you may as well just pick whichever one you want and weather the storm. I dunno what they get out of it apart from seeing us get stressed! Actually i think i've just answered my own question there - i think it is just to see our reaction/get us doing their bidding and how far they can push.

I guess just work out how far you'll put up with it and don't give in to any further tantrum - same as with every issue really!!

Must be so hard though if your eldest is sensitive to noise? Some of my dd's tantrums are LOUD! Can hear her down the street!

My 23 month old ds does this. Not so much now but was terrible and it went on for months. He tends to only do it now when he's just woke frim his nap! I ask him if he wants a drink, he says 'no' so I don't give him one, then he starts sobbing and saying 'juice'... I hand him his cup, he pushes it away and cries more saying 'nooooo', then 2 seconds later just keeps saying in a really whiney voice 'juice...no!' then crying for about 20 minutes whether I gave him the bloody juice or not. I think all you can do is ignore it. I just assume that they don't actually know what they want so leave them to it and they'll soon learn the consequences of their replies to our questions (hopefully).

thanks

guess it's just something we'll have to muddle through

Laadeda, yes it's dd1's reactions to it that are the real worry.

she is very noise sensitive, and dd2 can make the most godawful noise

that was the problem last night - they share a room, and dd2 was wailing horribly, which sent dd1 inot hysterics as there was nowhere she could get away form the noise...

a lot of the time I can leave her to it, but mealtimes and sleep tmes she is in close proximity to dd1, and so the knock on effects are huge

Yes, i can see that must make for a very tricky and stressful situation.

I suppose it must be hard to stay firm in the face of any tantrum at those times - the desire to just keep the peace/appease dd2 must be strong to avoid dd1 reaching meltdown but balanced with not wanting to give in to every tantrum and have a child who knows tantrums get you what they want! Even more tricky if you can't actually appease her - totally pointless tantrum resulting in massive problems for you.

I feel this slightly since having ds. I could stand firm in the face of most things dd threw at me but when there are 2 of them whinging on or screeching i generally just want to make one of them be quiet and giving ds what he wants usually gets that result the fastest Poor dd suffers for being older and more able to be reasoned with - no point telling ds he can't have a snack as dinner will be in 1/2 hr as he is 16 months old and cannot understand. He often gets the snack to make him BE QUIET whereas dd in the same situation would wait as i could cope with her whining. His whining coupled with her general loudness = headache for me, so i try and just have one of those noises. I'm gonna end up with a nightmare on my hands aren't i?