5 year old DD being pushed and hit by her best friend (every day!!!)

[toffeeapple]

We've had that particular friend around for play dates and I've noticed her behaviour was very bad in the presence of her mum (who is very nice but doesn't apply discipline AT ALL), but my DD tells me that she pushes her on a daily bases at school, she even made her fall and hurt her knee. It turns out that little girl has been biting and hitting quite a lot of other children at school and got in trouble for it, but her mum does NOT want to aknowledge it and says things like "DD's foot touched so and so's stomach the other day" (what, you mean she kicked him in the stomach?).
I don't judge that woman for not disciplining her child, she might have her reasons, what annoys me is that my DD loves her so much and ALWAYS plays with her and no one else.
At least that what she tells me.
My DD does not hit, push or do anything like that, so she won't do it back if it's done unto her. I have taught her to say "don't do that, I don't like it!!!" or to tell the teacher if she carries on, but ideally I would much prefer it if she found another "best friend".
What can I do? Is it worth talking to the mother? She refuses to believe that it might be her daughter's fault, even if she sees her doing stuff, she would just find a reason as to why she did it.
DD seems to be attracted to kids like that as well which is annoying, she had another "bully friend" at preschool which she stuck with all the time.
She already doesn't have much self confidence, I don't want those kids to make it worse.
Any advice?

oh dear, you have a very similar if not identical situation to me, although my dd and her friend a boy are only 3 and a half.
Its a nightmare, dd has come home from nursery this week with 2 bruises on her head from this boy, and yet his mother is a very good friend of mine, but again like you, I find her discipling methods are not working with her ds.

TBH the nursery have spoken to me and are dealing with his behaviour, and assure me that dd is coping really well and is not the least bit troubled by it, is fairly fiesty and tbh I think she will eventually get sick of him

I have had the same dilemma with my friend......do I speak to her about it or not. She has told me that although her dws behaviour is unacceptable, it is just a phase

So will watch this thread with interest, and see what other people advise...

This is my other thread which only got one response me the ultimate thread killer

behaviour-with-my-dd here

I had exactly this problem. In my case, mum was/is a good friend, which makes it harder.

My advice - stop the play dates with bossy friend.

Arrange other play dates with other kids and encourage different friendships. Ask a teacher for advice on this - she may be able to advise on a few names.

When DD complains about bossy friend's behaviour to her, empathise but firmly advise that she stays away and plays with other children. This works really well when coupled with a chance to have someone round.

You need to give your DD the tools to sort this herself - other friends and the ability to take herself off when things get uncomfortable. Soon she will tell you about an incident when she told X to stop doing something she didn't like, they took no notice, and so she went to find other friend, or do something else on her own. Lots of praise will then flow!

It took me years to sort this out, but the above advice does work, allbeit a slow process.

We have a similar situation in reception.

However it was more the teachers brought it to my attention rather than me drawing it to theirs.

Its been going on for a while now and to be honest i'll just be glad when its the holidays.

The child concerned isn't malicious but just doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his actions.

But what has happened is that my DS is withdrawing from this child quite a lot. What at first seemed quite funny/exciting behaviour is now seen as quite shocking by him. Of course i do also think that children get fed up of being bitten/pushed etc and just look for others to play with.

I must say i did encourage this a bit by just emphasising how lovely it was to have lots and lots of friends. And if someone hurt you then just go and play with someone else.

It is very frustrating and worrying though. Definitely discuss further with the teacher to make sure they're on top of it.

Oh just to add - I pinched this strategy off an eight year old boy. DS was telling his street wise cousin of his problems with the mean friend, whilst in the back of the car. I was ear wigging.

Cousin's wise words were 'Play with them as long as its fun. Then if it gets rough, run off real quick.'

I do encourage different friendships for my dd, and asked her this week if she still liked playing with this boy, and she told me she liked playing with him and nursery teacher told me they always play together.

I have told my dd to stay away from him if she does not like him hitting her, and to tell a teacher although I am sorely tempted to tell her to clock him one back

When we have play dates with this boy, I watch them like a hawk and openly chastise him when his behaviour impacts on dd, but friend does not seem to even notice

I think you need to speak to the teacher first about this girl.It may be easier for the teacher to talk to the mother in an objective manner.
Also, the only way I have realised actually works is to pick up on the behaviour immediately eg tell the mother what you have seen straight away, it kind of forces her into some kind of response

How old is she? I'm guessing maybe reception, since your mention of pre-school sounded quite recent?

Rather than finding another 'best friend', would the school consider helping by trying to do a class-wide mix-up of friendships? I think a lot of problems like this happen when schools don't try to make sure children play with a range of other children (and I do think schools need to try to make that happen, it's rare that everyone-plays-with-everyone just happens, as a dynamic) - so that the shyer or less self-confident children end up with whoever it is that will be their permanent companion - even if that child isn't that nice to them.

So I wouldn't talk to the mother at this point; instead I'd see if school are ready to help in a wider way, by helping the whole class play less exclusively?

(My dd's school did this in reception/yr1/into yr2, to the extent that 'best friends' were effectively banned - you were not allowed to play with just one person & developing pairings got split up (moving tables, etc.). Quite programmatic, perhaps not to everyone's taste!, but it really does work.)

(oops I just noticed you put her age in the title!)

There is a "bullyish" type boy in my DS's class, and all the kids LOVE him. Actually my DS is not that bothered about him, but he is so popular with the other boys.

This week he has been on holiday, and all the other kids are so much happier. All the mums have been commenting about how much more relaxed the kids are afterschool.

I would definitely encourage different friendships, and agree - give your DD some advice about dealing with the friend.

That's really great, it sounds like great advice!
I'm definately not going to arrange any more play dates with her (feeling a bit mean about it as her mum is a lovely lady but just too weak with her child), but arrange some more with others. I'm dreading her birthday coming up now as that particular girl is invited.
Sounds awful but I'm really hoping they are not in the same class next year.
Anyway I've told DD to stay away from her if she's too bossy and violent, but all she says is: "But I love her!!".
P.s: the little girl in question can be sweet at times and DD is blessed with a lot of patience (at least the girl's mum has noticed that).
The teacher has pointed out to me a few incidents it's usually DD who lets me know about the daily incidents.
I don't want it to look like I'm going behind that woman's back, isn't it better if I speak to her directly?

Thats how I feel toffeeapple very, in fact almost two faced, as everyone else is discussing it, and nursery have obv discussed it with me, although they were careful not to mention names.

I think its prob best to let school/nursery deal with it, as they are used to such things, and maybe only see the girls mother on an evening with NO children?

If it's happening at school I think it's best that you talk to the teacher.

Ds has a friend who constantly touches and hugs him (which sounds nicer than being kicked and punched but imagine having a 7 year olds full weight on you when you are sat cross legged) even during lessons. Now it's affecting ds's work and attention at school the teacher has got involved.

Ds is torn because he wants to be kind, but has also admitted to hiding in the trees so the boy can't find him.

Well, I think it may seem a little two faced but I ime it is very hard to discuss a child's behaviour with a parent unless they bring it up first.
It is also a good idea in case your dd still wants to be friends with the girl and her behaviour does improve, then neither of you have lost a friend

mrsruffalo: the only prob with talking with the teacher is that that teacher has already had trouble with the girl's mother and she even got the head involved (the mother that is), as she was complaining that her child was always accused of hitting people when really it was the other kids fault.
I'm sure if I talk to her it will be ok, she seems like a reasonable woman (although maybe not when her daughter's involved).

If you feel comfortable talking to the mum then do it, maybe I shy away from confrontation
too much!
I think she sounds a bit barmy from that teacher story
Good Luck

Ah ah ah!! Yeah you might be right!!
I think I'll just tell DD to smack her one back!!
only joking!!
Thanks all for your brilliant advice!! At least I'm not alone!

Just a word about going behind the mum's back.

My experience was that by trying to involve the mum in the solution, it really just prolonged things. Even when she acknowledged something had happened, she would just say ( and still says) 'Its just X being X. But isn't it great that they both get on.'

And everytime there was trouble - everyday! - I'd feel obliged to tell her about it, and so just wouldn't bother and avoid the issue. But then we got into a pattern of her saying 'I know if he was as bad as they are saying, I'd hear it from you.' I became part of the denial.

As her son became more isolated because of his behaviour, the pressure on my son to be his friend became even greater.

I couldn't have handled it worse if I'd tried. Finally, I've come absolutely clean and said 'they are kids, they don't get on. DS doesn't want to X round to play.' It took 5 years and a post on MN to work that one out.

My experience is that mum is part of the problem, however nice she is. Trying to sort her and her daughter out is just too hard.

Good luck.

God Maria I think you're right, there's no point trying to deal with the mum, the problem is too deep rooted, she might just have some serious issues of her own to deal with before she can even contemplate disciplining her child.
She seems to find it hard to even raise her voice to her. She hits her and everything.
Basically I don't think there's anything wrong with me saying "Your DD has been pushing my dd on a daily bases" so that she is aware of the fact that I know about it.
And then go and have a chat with the teacher to see what's what.