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How do you teach a 7 (nearly 8) year old not to lie?!

13 replies

Amybelle · 22/05/2009 10:00

My DSS has been brought up living with my DH and his parents due to his mother dying. As a result (and understandably) he's been rather spoilt by his GP's and my DH felt a bit left out of parenting. We got married last year and are slowly getting him to be a 'normal' child. A few of the things he does annoy me but I know aren't his fault, but recently his lying is getting worse. He doesn't really see there's a problem with this as when he lies Nanny and Grandad laugh (they tend to encourage all behaviour that normal parents tell off and that my DH says he was told off for).

On Monday he was meant to do some maths before school but he'd ticked all the sums but not put his workings out (money adding up game). I suspected this was because he'd not done it but gave him the benefit of the doubt when he said he'd not thought to write it down. On Tuesday, he missed 2 sections and wrote down some workings out illegibly. I asked why, he said Daddy had done the 2 sections with him. Daddy hadn't been there. So, he lost a piece of pasta (a reward type incentive for good behaviour)for lying. Then after being cornered he admitted he'd not done the work on the Monday and thought I wouldn't notice. Another piece went, followed by a long talk on why lying isn't good or nice (he's very good at telling you about other people's bad behaviour). Thought I'd got there.

This morning, he did the same bit and put some of his answers twice in a different order for 'find 3 ways to add up to...'. I pointed this out and it seems he once again, thought I wouldn't notice. So, I've just shouted 'you're a liar and a cheat' at him, followed by explaining he obviously hasn't learnt and it made him a nasty person if he lied. He's slightly red eyed but doesn't seem to feel guilt ('I'll try not to lie'), so we're now not going out for the day, my day off work (he has an inset day) is going to be spent doing rubbish stuff to make his life dull.

How can I teach him that lying is not a good thing, ignoring the fact he will always be found out!

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Pitchounette · 22/05/2009 11:06

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AMumInScotland · 22/05/2009 11:19

I think the most effective way to learn not to do something is to see that it has negative consequences for you, which come as a direct result of your actions.

So, you check his work, see he's not really done it, and make him do it all again properly. He has then had to spend longer on it than would have happened if he'd done it right the first time. This may sometimes mean he can't do something fun, because he's out of time. But not as a punishment, just as a simple obvious result. Cause and effect follow each other with inevitability.

By his age, that is more effective than punishment, or shouting, because to an extent it takes you out of the equation. It's not "punishment" it's "consequence".

Amybelle · 22/05/2009 14:39

I tried what both of you have said on Tuesday. I took the pasta, explained why it wasn't good, that it would mean we didn't trust and believe him (which he used to be upset by) and left it there. Then I asked him in the evening once the mood was better, whether he'd understood why he shouldn't lie and also said he'd need to do the work every morning before school until it was done. Thought he'd learn that it was just going to take him longer and thus be more annoying as he'd lost drawing time. Was also impressed I'd stayed calm the whole time and (privately) saw the funny side (I'd have probably tried the same as a child but not got away with it).

This morning, it was the same page of work, I was checking it and he lied again. That's why I was so annoyed as I'd thought he'd have learnt as it'd ruined his free time in the mornings. Plus, as an incentive I'd said we could go out once he'd finished it. Sometimes he can spend a whole day doing one page of maths. It's not that he can't do it, he just day dreams. I'd thought by waving a carrot under his nose it'd work but he just 'cheated' to get there quicker!

We've since been out and done the food shopping, plus looked at fancy dress outfits, so now he's back to doing maths and once he finishes it we'll watch a film.

Think I'm just frustrated by thinking he'd understood and him doing exactly the same again. I've never shouted at him before and felt bad but also knew he wasn't taking any notice when I was talking to him. Thankfully I only shouted one sentence at him so he didn't seem to notice.

I'll have a look on the 'how to talk to children' bit.

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Amybelle · 22/05/2009 14:40

Meant to say, we've also had a conversation about how lying just makes more lies and more work. Telling the truth is easier. He says he's learnt....

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Pitchounette · 22/05/2009 14:47

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Amybelle · 22/05/2009 14:54

I obviously didn't make sense. He does the work in the morning and then I check it before we go to school-means I can help him through it. On Monday, I wasn't sure he'd lied as he seemed to be working quickly, on Tuesday it became apparent he'd not told the truth.

I think we just keep making him aware. What concerns me is that he doesn't seem to feel bad all of the time if he's done something wrong but then I don't know if that's normal 7 year old behaviour!

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AMumInScotland · 22/05/2009 14:57

It's frustrating when you think you've got through to them, and they do the same thing again. But it just takes time and repetition.

Is this maths homework? When my DS was that age we set a time limit for his homework, rather than let it go on too long, as I don't think it actually helps them with their schoolwork if they sit there staring blankly at it for hours.

AMumInScotland · 22/05/2009 15:00

He may not feel it's actually wrong. Many people will get out of doing something they don't enjoy, and if they don't see that it's harming anyone else, why would it feel wrong? By 7 or 8 I would expect some concept of morality - in terms of it being wrong to hurt other people - but not to have an inbuilt work ethic. You may be able to get him to do things because he knows it will have consequences, but not because he sees anything morally wrong in not doing a page of maths.

That's connected with why children of this age cannot be held responsible in law - they just don't get it yet!

Amybelle · 22/05/2009 15:26

No he's a year behind so the deal is one morning before school he does a page of maths - shouldn't take more than 15-20 mins. He then gets the other mornings to read or draw. Has just been a way of getting him to do a little bit with a little help if he needs it.

If his homework takes too long we help or stop then do some later. The problem is, he's learnt if he struggles, someone will help him or he can get to do something else. It's a fine line that's not always working!

Yeah he doesn't seem to realise it's wrong to hurt other people. I can't remember what happened a while back but he'd done something to me (worrying I can't remember now as I know it caused me a lot of upset at the time) and he didn't feel bad at all. My DH even had a sit down and explained that what he'd done had hurt my feelings and wasn't very nice and he still didn't say sorry. He also broke a wedding present a week after our wedding, didn't apologise or look guilty at all. Just waited for us to clear it up. I've had experience of teaching consequences with teenagers I do work with but I just always (wrongly it seems) thought people feel bad if they hurt other people's feelings.

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PlumBumMum · 22/05/2009 15:31

Tell him the story of the boy who cried wolf and then explain in it his terms,
and also some children really do find it hard to apologise my dd1 is 8 and she has always found it difficult even from she was a toddler (stubborn)

AMumInScotland · 22/05/2009 15:36

I think it's something children have to learn, unfortunately, not all are empathetic by nature. And if he's had a fairly indulged upbringing so far then he may not have got into the habit yet of thinking about anyone else's feelings. I'm not sure how you go about teaching them at this age, but if he sees you and DH showing concern for each other, then it may click that he's missing something.

Are school happy with his behaviour and development? If he finds things difficult there too you might be able to get a referral to someone who can help you develop strategies for improving his behaviour. Or you could ask the GP. It sounds like his childhood has had a few upheavals and he may need help to work through his feelings.

Amybelle · 22/05/2009 15:44

No he's fine at school-everybody always says what a sweet well mannered child he is and he gets involved without being too loud! He used to be very unsure of himself but since we've been married he's been much more confident-his teachers are pleased! I suspect it's just patience required-if I look back he's made such positive changes in the last 6 months or so, it's just not the one that worries me the most. But then I guess it's always the important changes that take longer as they're bigger!

He always wants to be involved in me and DH's cuddles and things so hopefully he will just learn this by watching us. His Nanny doesn't always care about what his Grandad feels so I think you're right about him not seeing it.

Great idea about the boy who cried wolf-I had that as a child!

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AMumInScotland · 22/05/2009 15:49

Well, if you've seen loads of improvement so far, then I think it's just a matter of persistence and patience, and hopefully he'll continue to improve.

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