"naughty step" failed miserably today

[LissyGlitter]

This morning I was sat with my DD (2.3) on the settee in the front room, and some friends of my housemates were dozing on the floor and on the other settee (they all went out last night)

Anyway, when I went to make breakfast I realised we had no milk, so I put her some dry cereal in a bowl to nibble on till my morning sickness could subside enough to nip to the shop.

She ate it ok for a bit, but then purposefully tipped some onto the settee. I quietly but firmly told her "no", but then she looked round the room at all the people and kicked the bowl over on purpose. I asked her if she was sorry and she said no.

So I led her by the arm to the bottom stair, and told her she had to sit on the naughty step for two minutes. She started to cry.

I went back after two minutes and she was sat calmly. I asked her if she was sorry and she said no. So I closed the front room door and came back in about thirty seconds. When I came back she was standing up, but sat down, grinning, when she saw me. She still refused to say sorry. This carried on for a while, till I realised that when I was going back she was giggling and sitting down, as if we were playing.

So I knelt down in front of her and said that if she said she was sorry she could come back into the front room where everyone was. She shouted "no". So I said "say sorry" and she quietly said "sorry", so I said she could come back into the front room, at which point she threw a tantrum and refused to come back in. I picked her up and brought her in, and then just ignored her tantrum till it stopped, although the guests were laughing at her. then she climbed onto the settee next to me and continued eating the cereal (which I had cleaned up).

Did I do right? It was a lot harder in front of people who don't understand kids. She's not usually shy, so I don't think it was that, although it was one girl who we know and two blokes we had never met before, so maybe she was. I was feeling like a bad enough mother for not having any milk in (although it was probably the drunken people making brews that had led to that) and feeling guilty for waking up the guests (one of them actually took DD by the hand and led her into the kitchen while I was making breakfast, as if to say they didn't want her in the room)

Did you ask her why she tipped the bowl? Perhaps it was her way of saying she was uncomfortable with strangers in the house. Is it something she is used to?

I'm not sure why you felt guilty for her waking up the guests. And if someone had led one of my children away to the kitchen as if they didn't want them there then I'd have something to say to that person. It's your dds home not theirs.

Don't do naughty step. She'll learn quicker if all you'd done was say 'don't that please, it's really messy. Can you help me clear it up?'.

Forcing children to say sorry is counter-productive - why say it if you don't mean it? She'll learn to say sorry if you consistently ask her to once or twice every time she does something she shouldn't - and then say 'ok, well would you please say sorry when you've calmed down'.

And I agree with Flamingobing regarding the naughty step.

I suggest you read How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk for some better ways of dealing with her. Also Unconditional Parenting.

The naughty step is a complete waste of time imo. It just makes no common sense whatsoever and all my friends are obesessed by it and complain that their LOs don't behave.

And sorry for sounding stroppy - not meaning to be 2 year olds are hard work, and it doesn't help when people like flipping Super Nanny say time out and the naughty step are the answer, when they blatently aren't!

why do you think she tipped the cereal up?

It's only the second time I have used the naughty step, usually all it takes is for me to say no and she stops doing whatever she is doing, if not I distract her, but I felt she was playing up because people were watching so I thought removing her from the situation would be best.

I will look up those books, I have a friend who just weakly says "don't do that" to her daughter when she misbehaves, and she is well known for being the worst behaved child in our circle of friends, and has been threatened with exclusion from nursery because of her behaviour, so I am determined not to let DD turn out like that.

was she playing up though? was she actually naughty? or did she just annoy you by tipping the cereal? and made you feel on edge as she may disturb the guests..as you already felt tense cos they'd brought her into the kitchen, after they'd been 'naughty' in finishing the milk?? do you see my point?

int it funny how evveryone has a friend who has a child that you are determined your children will not be like. I think everyone has a child like that in their lives.

Saying 'don't do that' weakly to a child is not what I mean. You need to say something, and do something, and qualify it. So 'don't do that, it makes a horrid mess that needs to be cleared up' and then get her to clear it up with you.

And don't expect her to learn not to do something right now, she'll learn over a period of time.

The thing is, do you want her to choose not to tip cereal on the floor because it's an annoying, messy thing to do, or because she might have to sit on the naughty step?

I have followed the How To Talk book (and others by that author) and also read a lot about non-coercive/consensual living parenting and things like Unconditional Parenting. My children frequently recieve remarks about how lovely they are, how kind and helpful, and well 'behaved', as do the children of my friends who also parent in this way.

Seriously, respecting your children and treating them as equal to you (not like an adult, but like another equal person who simply has less experience and knowledge than you, but who may well still be right about things you are wrong about), really results in very pleasant children

Also, you may find it helpful to think about the things she does that might be termed 'misbehaving' and think to yourself 'why not?'. What really is the big deal about the cereal being tipped over? Sounds like fun - it's all crunchy and interesting. It can be hoovered up easily enough. It's no big deal. Maybe it would have been better to say - 'that looks fun! Will you help me clear it up later on?' and then get the hoover out - I bed she'd love doing that with you!

i have no idea why she tipped the cereal up, it may have been because when i told her to stop after tipping the small amount, everyone in the room looked at her, so she thought it was a good thing to do.

She knows I don't like her tipping food about, because often I have to reassure her that I don't mind her doing it by accident. She will accidentally tip some food on the floor (my fault-in the mornings I feel more sick in the kitchen for some reason, so she eats her breakfast off her knee in the front room rather than at the table, so spillages are to be expected) and then immediately run over to me saying sorry, and insist on helping to clean up. She generally likes things to be tidy, and will say "messy messy" and shake her head if she thinks things are too messy (I'm an absolute slob so no idea where she gets this from!)

My mums technique to to just ignore any mess till she has finished eating, then clean up with no fuss, which i do in the kitchen, but I can't let milk soak into the carpet or it would smell. I'm also a bit worried about what my Inlaws will think as we will be moving in with them for a bit in a few weeks and they are mega tidy. I actually have to tell them not to wipe DDs face when she is in the middle of a meal!

I think getting a child to say sorry for the sake of it is pointless - what does it achieve? I like the naughty step because it makes them stop and think about their behaviour. Mind don't come off until they have explained back to me why they were put there and what they did wrong, and we have a chat about the whole situation Saying sorry isn't often mentioned because that's not the most important point.

Clearly your lo didn't really care or think about why she was there and thought it was a game. Maybe she is a bit young to understand what the point of sitting on the step is?

That's an issue you're going to have to deal with with your ILs and not just about the tidiness. Don't risk ruining your DD though, just to appease your ILs! Easier said than done, I know!

I think I thought the cereal was dry in the OP. Why not get a floor protector for when you're at your IL's and for when the food that might get spilled (by accident or on purpose!) would spoil a carpet?

I do think the naughty step is a bit weird tbh, we never had it as kids and when my auntie made my sister sit on the naughty step we couldn't understand why it was a punishment. But then we got smacked as kids and I don't want that for DD.

I usually take away whatever she is misbehaving with, eg if she throws a toy horse at my head, I take away the toy horse, but I didn't want to take away her cereal as I wanted her to eat it as I thought one of the reasons she was grumpy was because she was hungry.

the cereal was dry in the OP, it was more the blatant bad behavior (ie she knew what she was doing was wrong) that annoyed me, but usually there is milk on it, which is how she has come to learn that I don't like it spilt on the carpet.

And lol about the ILs, I know! I'm going to have to strike a balance between listening to their good advice and sticking to my guns!

lissy she is very very young.

She really doesnt do things to be naughty she does them to see what happens. She is at the exploring age. If she tips things and she gets little or no reaction she will quickly bore of it.

If she does it and mummy then spends 10 minutes 'playing' with her she'll do it again to see if you react in the same way.

My DS2 is 2.1. last week he threw a toy brick at my head. Instead of saying 'don't throw' and then moving on I made a big fuss of it, he then proceeded to throw more things at me until I put it out the room. He is still throwing things this week. had I ignored it he would have stopped by now! (must remember to do my own advice!)

as for the naughty step...far too young and will cause far more angst than anything.

That book flambingo sugested is brilliant.

it isn't blatant bad behaviour though really. it's dry cereal. does she even like dry cereal? looking at it in context does she like eating dry cereal with a sickly mother and a room full of hungover half asleep people she doesn't know?

See if you can read those books, Lissy. Children don't need punishment, nor do they need 'time to think about what they've done' - they just need gentle, loving guidance from their parents about what is ok and what isn't and why some things are ok and some aren't.

Above all, they need to know they're loved even when they do the things that aren't ok - they misbehave more when they worry that they aren't loved unconditionally. They test you: 'does Mummy love me even when I do this?'. they get put on the naughty step 'OMG, she doesn't! She doesn't wnat to be with me! Let me just check again'. Seriously - that is how children's subconscious works. Naughty steps/time out/any punishment doesn't work to get children to do things appropriately for hte right reasons.

" Children don't need punishment, nor do they need 'time to think about what they've done' - they just need gentle, loving guidance from their parents about what is ok and what isn't and why some things are ok and some aren't. "

So so true, bang on.

and I also would say to OP she is extremely young and is just starting to explore and understand communication.