8 year old girls - does anyone else have one that cannot control herself?

[scatterbrain]

My dd has always been wilful (I've been on here since before she was born and have talked about her lots of times over the years) - but just recently she has developed an amazing and horrible ability to rant at me - the most horrible things - and I don't know where she's getting it from!

She regularly says she hates me and wishes I was dead, last week she came up to me quite calmly and told me she had been thinking about me and had decided that it would be best for everyone if I moved out, went on to tell me that she and Daddy would be much happier without me and I should pack now and go.

I KNOW she is only a child and she doesn't mean what she says (does she?) but it is really beginning to get to me.

The other thing is that my mother is and was a great ranter and sayer of nasty things and she and I do not have a good relationship and at some level I wonder whether my dd is just like her gran?

I have tried explaining to my dd, when she is calm, how upsetting all this is - and she says sorry and promises not to do it again - but then she does it again anyway. She also lies to her dad and denies saying things to me. It is seriously bugging me now.

I'm wondering whether she needs some sort of professional counselling or something?

Also - could it be something going on that comes out like this? She is very quiet at school and seems very happy - she has lots of friends, and is well behaved at school. She doesn't go anywhere else so I don't think there is any chance that anyone else is afecting her.

Does anyone else have a child like this? or any experience of child counselling?

Television? What do you allow her to watch?

It does sound odd, for an 8 year old.

She doesn't watch much TV - she has quite babyish tastes really - Timothy Goes to School is her most favourite thing at the moment.

I guess she has caught snippets of adult things like Hollyoaks and Corrie - but only when passing through a room - she certainly doesn't WATCH them.

She does listen to Horrid Henry CDs - which I haven't listened to myself - I wonder if they are like that?

Ds is 8 and will say things like this to me.

i know he has picked them up from his father but he still needs to know they upset me. i do pretty much as you do and allow him to calm down before trygint to explain taht to him.

She is certainly picking this sort of thing up from somewhere. i think you need to speak with her and your husband about the sort of things she is saying, particularly about you leaving. do you think she has over heard someone else? or maybe a friends parents are splitting up and she is getting these conversations from school?

How does she get on with her dad?

How is your relationship with her dad?

She must be picking it up from somewhere, because it is strange thing to say for her age, and the words she uses sound quite "grown up" IYSWIM.

It's got to be coming from school I think - she is only ever here or there - we have no childcare and she rarely spends time anywhere else to be honest.

One of her friends at school does come out with some quite adult things I suppose - I think her mum talks to her like an adult - maybe that's it?

My relationship with her Dad is OK - not exactly passionate but we have been married over 15 years and we are very good friends. We don't row or anything like that.

He is quite old fashioned with her I suppose - expects her to behave and shouts at her if she doesn't - bit sergeant majorish - but I doubt that he talks about me leaving!

This post reminds me a little of how I was at aged 8, although mostly I directed my issues towards my father.

I was an only child born to my parents late in their lives. I was very verbal and constantly playing each parent off against the other. My mother was caught in the middle, trying to please me and my father.

Your DD sounds very bright and seems to know how to push your buttons and get a reaction. When she does kick off, do you and your DH show a united front that the behaviour is unacceptable, or do you have arguments/disagreements over the best way to manage her behaviour? Children will automatically know what they can get away with and will push all sorts of boundaries if they can.

If you show a united front, things could possibly improve (there was never any united front with my parents!). Also, could you and your DD spend time together, just the two of you, doing things you'd both enjoy together, to try and improve your relationship?

Thanks for replying everyone. DD is very bright and I agree she is recognising and pushing my buttons - she just seems to enjoy the reaction - whether it is positive or negative. It doesn't seem to matter.

If someone else asked this I'd think that their child was lacking attention - but my dd isn't - despite us both working full time she gets a lot of time with us and we do do things with her.

I do make the effort to do nice girlie things with her - and we always have a nice time - then she flips back again and I wonder why I bother.

Hopefully she will grow out of it soon!

Does she spend much time with your Mum has she seen the behaviour from her?

Good point - she rarely sees my mum but yes she has seen the behaviour maybe 4 times in 8 years - and she knows how much it upsets me - so yes maybe she is copying the behaviour to get a reaction.

God that's such a scarey thought that my 8 year old is deliberately trying to upset me!

It's probably subconscious though to an extent.

Could she be feeling insecuring and saying these things because she wants to hear that you love her despite her hurting your feelings so much (could be stuff going on at school or she may not like you working full time etc)

I just realised that I forgot to say - she gets into terrible ranty rages and it is impossible to stop her yelling. She's alwasy had a problem coming out of a tantrum - and it hasn't got any better as she's got older and I was wondering whether she has anger management issues?

She doesn't have any siblings fortunately - but regularly beats up teddy bears and has hit us too. The violence worries me as she definitely hasn't seen that at home.

Does sounds like anger issues, that she hasn't learnt how to express them in a different way yet. Speak to the school perhaps they can refer her to someone? All Surrey schools now have a home link worker thingy.

I think I'd have to do it privately as her school (private) doesn't have things like that - I have spoken once to the headmistress and she didn't really offer any advice other than I need to get this sorted out now before she gets much older! Which was helpful!

I wonder if the GP would be able to recommend anyone?

gp should be able to recommend someone. have you tried talking to your dd about what she thinks triggers these rages. you say she gets on well at school but is something upsetting her? 8yo girls can be horrors to each other. lots of kids come out of school and have to vent after being forced to behave all day. Also she cant vent with her father if he is rather strict. I wouldn't take it personally sounds like you are the only person she feels secure with to be able to express herself.

What is she like at school ?

maybe it might benefit her to talk to someone. Have you got anybody at the school that helps with talking over the childrens problems?

Good luck and hope it gets better!

what do you generally do when she says these things to you?

Hi,

At school she is extremely quiet and well behaved - in fact her teachers are alwasy saying that they want her to speak up more and answer questions etc. They even describe her as very shy - which is not at all my dd.

Don't think school are set up with anyone to help - plus they don't ever see that side of her - so I think they think I exagerrate!

When she says this to me I usually let her rant and just look at her in a disapproving way - if I try and interrupt or stop her it just ups the anti and she kicks off even more. I have put my hand up to say stop on occasion and she has hit my hand in response. She hates me to ignore the ranting - but also hates me to interrupt it. I can't win at all.

I do agree that there is an element of "letting it all out in a safe environment" and I am glad she is good at school - BUT - I am not sure I can go on living with this until she grows up!

Any ideas are very welcome!

ok for what it's worth I think from what you've said, that she is still doing this, because she's basically allowed.

I think you need to draw the line much more clearly and definitely for her. If this were me I would walk off very purposefully and tell her very clearly that you don't listen to that and you don't talk to people who are rude to you. If it takes locking yourself in the loo, maybe that's ok!

Does she ever do it when your DH is around? If so he needs to be as clear as you that you neither of you stay around for that crap.

I think yes she may hate you to ignore it BUT that does not mean it isn't the right thing to do.

Yes it may seem to escalate it - that's because by ignoring you have taken control and are minimising what she's doing. That's great. Just because she gets angrier and louder doesn't mean you shouldn't do it!

You need to show her very clearly and strongly that you don't talk to her in that mood; but you'll happily talk and listen when she can do it properly.

Thanks for that - have done the walking off and locking myself in bathroom thing - she just banhs on the door and works herself up into a worse frenzy. Maybe I will try it again - but it is beyond this I think. I really need outside help.

My DD (6) does the temper thing, she's impossible to calm down too. With us it's normally tiredness, if I see the signs I get her into bed pronto, even if it's 6pm.

If she completely loses it I sit down with her and cuddle her until she calms down, she can't do it by herself. This can be quite hard if she's been hitting/screaming/throwing etc but sending her to her room to be by herself just makes it worse. She hates herself afterwards too and says she's stupid and that I think she's stupid (and she's not and we've never called her this, but it's something she always says). I just tell her I love her regardless and that it's her behaviour I don't like and that she's not stupid.

If I don't let her get too tired then we're normally ok, but she will need to learn to manage her anger better at some point, I'm hoping she will as she gets older.

I think at 8 I would probably be talking to somebody about giving her some techniques on managing her anger. It's a shame the school aren't helping you more.

DSS2 had some counselling at 11, my pregnancy with DD upset him and he got very OCD/not eating/feelings of death etc. He had counselling for about 6 months and is right as rain now (18). The school at the time said it was very normal.

I think I agree with slowreadingprogress - you are allowing her to do this to you.

I think they first time (s) you ignore it 100% she could quite well go on for hours to see if you "crack" ie resort to your usual stance but I think you do need to assert yourself. You are not her punch bag.

If it were me I would chat to her and say you are not prepared to listen to her rants anymore and the next time you will be retiring to the loo/your bedroom/back garden until she has calmed herself down.

My dd2 (nearly 7) doesn't rant at me but occasionally she completely emotionall loses it and I find giving her hug (although not initially welcomed) does work but she would never hit me. She is also a child who would never answer back, lose it anywhere other than at home with us.

Thanks - I really think my dd is different though. She would fight me off if I tried to cuddle her - and I think I would risk a black eye to be honest. She is usually well past the stage of reason within 30 seconds of starting a tantrum.

Also she NEVER shows any remorse - it will remain as my problem - it was never her fault and she never wants to apologise - she will if forced to but never sincerely and has never apologised voluntarily.

People told me to cuddle her out of it when she was much younger - and it never worked then either.

I have told her again that I am not putting up with it and will not speak to her if she yells at me. So far this evening she has been cheeky and been growling at me but hasn't kicked off big time yet. It's usually when she is asked to do something she doesn't want to do - like go to bed, get dressed, tidy up etc - and our plan doesn't fit in with her plan then WHOOOMPH she'll be off!

I agree I can see you can't cuddle your daughter out of but I really would stop tolerating it.

Get a radio in the bathroom .

I would just leave her to it and come back and tell us how long the first ignored rant lasts, we could run a sweep stake! Try and keep your sense of humour, it's a learned pattern of behaviour from both of you so it's a case of trying to change the pattern into one that is less destructive IMO