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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

EASY (baby whisperer) - but what if needs more Eats than Sleeps?

37 replies

stinkypants · 12/05/2009 10:29

Was using EASY fairly well but now that he can stay awake longer, he is needing another feed before he needs a sleep - so can you do EAEAS?? or should i by now be lengthening the gap between feeds? Or does anyone do ESAESA?? am struggling to know whether he really needs a sleep between every feed.
he is 12 wks old, breast fed, currently feeding every 2 hours sometimes 2 and a half.
trouble is if i try to get him down, eg after first feed and activity of the day, he will just scream for an hour by which time its next feed time.
thank you for any ideas on this.

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babyphat · 12/05/2009 12:36

hi stinkypants, 12 weeks is sooo young, feeding every 2/ 2.5 hours is really not that often for a bf baby, i don't think you should be trying to stretch out feeds if he seems to want them. it's great that the routine worked for you up to now, but it is just a guide to how you can structure your day, not the be all and end all.

babies change so quickly that what worked one week won't necessarily work the next. try and watch for his cues for hunger and sleep, and if you think he needs one or the other, have the confidence to respond to those needs whatever the clock says.

if he screams for an hour the book routine is obviously not meeting his needs, which is all those things are (or should be) for - ideas on how to meet your baby's needs.

i'm sure someone who knows about routines and stuff and can advise on the EASY thing will be along soon

babyphat · 12/05/2009 12:38

oh, and you might get more responses if you post in 'sleep' or 'parenting'

pollywollywoowah · 12/05/2009 12:51

I could never have done EASY as DD wanted more sleep than eat! It would have been ESASE or something. At 12wks both of mine have only been able to stay awake 90mins max and then 30min sleep.

I went right off the Baby Whisperer when I read something like "a 3hr routine is totally inappropriate for a 16wk old baby". Er, says who?

And I agree with babyphat about confidence. You know your baby better than anyone so use a book for guidelines if you want but don't get bogged down by it all. Have the confidence to do what you think is right for your baby

dinkystinky · 12/05/2009 14:43

I have a 13 week old DS2 and he goes EASY some times other times EAESAEASY (especially when its hot or if he has a cold) - I just basically follow his cues. And he's still feeding every 2 to 2.5 hours during the day but goes much longer at night times (between 7 and 9 hours between feeds), so he's clearly getting enough milk during the day time. I'd say just follow your baby's cues - if he wants a feed before going to sleep, give him a little feed, maybe read him a little story while he's drowsy and put him down for a nap.

Original poster

stinkypants · 12/05/2009 17:18

Thank you. Today tried to chill a bit and not stick to the EASY thing, and am a lot less stressed. he is so much easier to put down for a nap when full of milk, those hormones and the satisfaction of eating i guess. so great advice, thanks. so glad found this website, as many of my friends / family try to support but cannot remember what its really like.

OP posts:

DwayneDibbley · 12/05/2009 22:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

GothAnneGeddes · 13/05/2009 02:44

Dear lord I hated that book. It made me feel utterly worried and inadequate. "Accidental parenting"

Since he is 12 weeks old, would a dummy be any use? At least that way you'll know if he's actually hungry, as he'll spit it out straight away if he is. Apologies for that suggestion if you think dummies are instruments of Satan.

Otherwise keep on feeding and lash the book. The change all the time an 12 weeks is a growth spurt time irc.

floradora · 13/05/2009 21:00

Agree totally with DwayneDibbley and GOthAnneGeddes, I decided it wasn't for me and my baby was never going to be EASY (huh - ) when I read that she always insists new mothers should rest between 2-5 pm every day, "you-time" being soooo important. I could never get DD to read that bit and take it on board
She just went EAEAEAEAEAsEAEAEAs ...
Don't believe in gurus myself

Original poster

stinkypants · 14/05/2009 19:11

thank you!! am so relieved to hear from some normal / realistic sounding mums! yes, she (baby whisperer)does have quite a superior tone.
i am really chuffed that he has settled himself this evening. still a big issue with napping but one step at a time.
i dont at all think dummies are bad; we've tried it and cant get him interested - he does now suck his thumbs / hands though.

OP posts:

iwantitnow · 14/05/2009 19:16

book in bin - feel very guilty that mine went to the charity shop so another mother will get stressed out - babies need to feed pre-sleep IME

MrsHappy · 14/05/2009 19:20

My DD never did EASY. She did AES instead. Don't recall much in the way of 'Y'.

She fed every 2 - 2.5 hours through the day until she was 4 months or so and then spaced them out some more.

Just feed yours when he is hungry. Nothing bad will come of it! I quite liked the BW book, especially the bit on baby body language, but just don't follow it religiously as you might a more 'routine'-driven book. The BW books advocate structure, which is fine IMO since I reckon my baby liked things to be predictable, but not imposing a routine. Do whatever works for you.

MistressSeuss · 14/05/2009 20:01

The best thing about the BW is that you learn to listen to your baby's cues and go slow - the EASY is a guide and I found some days we were EASY sometimes EASASEY etc etc.

They go through a growth spurt around 12 weeks so she could be guzzling! Mine refused a dummy but found his thumb too. Napping only settled when I weaned him, so don't worry, it will come in time

Once you have got it sussed it will all change the next day anyway.

I learnt a great phrase here- this too shall pass - O so true!!! Put the book out of reach, remember the good bits but ignore the rest!

charliegal · 14/05/2009 20:06

EASY -made up load of rubbish.
Bin it.

georgimama · 14/05/2009 20:10

That book is utter utter drivel - I had forgotten that phrase, "accidental parenting" - makes my blood pressure shoot up just thinking about it.

What if your parenting is accidental, eh Tracey? What if precious newborn wasn't planned - haven't got that base covered have you?

Forget the book, feed on demand, rest whenever you can, stick to MN.

charliegal · 15/05/2009 12:55

That EASY thing makes me laugh you know, like she invented the fact that babies eat, sleep and er...don't do much else actually. If I remember correctly the 'activity' could be, for example, staring at a mobile.

Yeah, I laughed at the 'Mothers should rest between 2-5' too.

wobbegong · 15/05/2009 13:20

If your baby eats more than sleeps then..
chuck away the book. Your baby obviously hasn't read it properly.

charliegal · 15/05/2009 13:23

IwishIwasmoreorganised · 15/05/2009 13:30

We did ESESESESES for a while then went onto EASESAESESAESA for a bit now we just do whatever!

12 weeks is very young for a routine, and I really think that bf on demand works best, even if that's before you think he should be "due" for a feed.

charliegal · 15/05/2009 13:51

In my experience it is so much EASY-er to just feed on demand and let the baby sleep as they want to.

Honestly the most stressful time of ds babyhood was when I was fretting about lengths of feeds, EASY routines. He is 2 now and it really all does go in a flash.

Enjoy your baby! Especially the bit when they fall asleep on your chest. (Don't worry about the Guatamalan nanny who never put the baby down, leading to a life of juvenile delinquency or whatever)

Original poster

stinkypants · 15/05/2009 19:09

hee hee. some fab comments.
am still stressing though! the whole reason we tried to start a routine is because he just won't sleep in the day and this is STILL a massive issue. the only way he'll fall asleep is mid-feed now, BUT this is going backwards because he was having regular naps in cot or car seat until recently. have been attempting the pick up / put down and have also failed at cc and leaving him to cry. (leaving to cry used to work as he'd go off after 10 mins - now he'll cry a lot longer and cannot bear it so pick him up).
i know he is tired becasue he's very cranky and shows all the other signs too. he's an insomniac i'm sure, because he won't even sleep in the car seat or pram without screeching for a while first.
any further ideas.
arrggggghhhh feel like joining in with his screaming!

OP posts:

hettie · 15/05/2009 19:22

ahh poor you- well the thing is little babies (well lots of the ones I know) find it fairly ahrd to get off to sleep. They generaly need a bit of help. Some need more than other (rocking cuddling etc), some like a bit of a ride in the pram, some like a swaddle etc etc. I know of one baby (ie under 4 months), that you could just put down and they would fall asleep. There is a lot of twaddle written about self-soothing, but they do all learn to do it in the end. You have to go with your baby as to when they might be ready to cope a little bit with getting off to sleep on their own, some days it mgiht seem like they can have less help than others. Then eventualy they need no help at all. At the moment if I were you I'd try whatever you can to get him off for a sleep (if feeding him to sleep works for you. Cranky tired grizzly babies are not much fun. When he's getting a bit more sleep and things are a bit more settled you'll probably find he's happier to have a go at getting off to sleep with less help.

SamJamsmum · 15/05/2009 19:27

The breastfeeding board on the babywhisperer website is actually pretty sensible.
There's lots of talk of EAEASY and variations on that theme. The moderators (it is heavily moderated) are very keen to advocate flexibility and following baby's cues. If you try and impose a rigid feeding schedule (especially around growth spurt time) you are likely to cause problems with your milk supply not to mention weight gain and baby happiness!

georgimama · 16/05/2009 08:26

It's worth remembering that Tracey Hogg is dead and cannot write a revised edition of her book. The latest edition of (dare I say it) GF Contented Little Baby has significant changes from the very first, as anyone would expect such a book to have (I'm not recommending either book though).

It is really hard work when you have a cranky Klingon of a baby (I've been there believe me) but when I gave up trying to shoehorn DS into someone else's idea of what would work and just did what he wanted, including feeding to sleep and co-sleeping - the total opposite of how I thought I would parent - life got so much easier.

Original poster

stinkypants · 16/05/2009 19:45

thanks again. today i just let him fall asleep on me whenever he wanted. he threw up from overfeeding this morn!! (amusingly all over me, himself - whole face somehow!! and the bed, so nice start to day!!!) but i controlled it a bit better rest of day... and to my surprise he still only had 2 and a half hours of naps when i added it all up, which seems like very little but perhaps all he needs?? anyway i reverted to leaving him to cry tonight when i put him down, after trying a few other things, singing to him in his cot etc. as usual he was quiet to begin with and only began to cry after a few minutes - but only cried for 20 mins so i could cope with that.i think he will always just cry himself to sleep.
bought new type of dummy today - he will suck / play around with it when sitting doing nothing but when needs to go to sleep he is not interested. don#t know whether to persevere or just not introduce it at this point.

OP posts:

charliegal · 16/05/2009 21:56

bloody hell-Tracey would shake her head at my style of accidental parenting- pregnant and still breastfeeding to sleep my 2 and a half year old!

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