Any sleep experts out there?

[charleyfarleycat]

Hi all
I'm really at the end of my tether. I have an 8 week old and a daughter who is nearly 3. She wakes every night (last night she was on and off crying and asking for us from 0115 to 0300).
If I am remembering correctly this started in September which coincides with 2 events. She started nursery in the afternoons and had to cut out her lunchtime sleep, and we told her I was pregnant.
During my pregnancy I thought she could be overtired, unsettled due to school and that this would just be a phase. But it's going on rather too long to be a phase.
Now that the baby's here I'm more convinced that she is attention seeking/jealous/upset that he is here. We have any excuse from monsters, bats, wanting more milk, not liking her bed etc.
On a daily basis she is loving towards him and doesn't say anything bad about him.
How can I get her to go back to sleeping for my own sanity? I really don't know what to do, but am close to leaving her to cry, which is not something I have done before but something has to give. I know this can be a controversial subject but I really don't know what else to do. I won't do it though if there is serious thought that it could emotionally affect a very bright 3 year old?
Can anyone help me before I curl up in a ball?

I suppose, then, all children are different. My son did not react well to all the "fuss", sorry, cannot find the right word (not a native English speaker), and I ended up "trapped" in his bed for several hours each night (often when I had to feed the little one) because he wouldn't go to sleep, he would toss and turn and tickle (me), talk, whatever you can think of. And this went on for at least 8 months until I thought it was enough, both my children need a calm, happy and peaceful mummy, who gets her sleep and rest, so I got out. And it worked. Within a week he was back sleeping as normal, of course, he still tried some tricks, every now and again, but that phase was gone.

Lovesofmylife. Thank you thank you. How long did it go on for with you? We have been doing soft but firm for months now, but I guess we have given in to some of her early morning orders!
We have tried to maintain as normal a life as possible from the night I went into labour to present day as I truly wanted the least disruption for her. It's good to know that I have at least done something right as I was starting to feel like a crap parent.
We will continue as we have been doing but we will not get her more milk in the middle of the night and we will continue to tell her it's time to sleep. And if she cries when we are firm we will gradually check on her less and less until she stops IYSWIM. That sounds like a rough plan in my addled head.

You see I didn't really do the tickle, talk, etc. I said that I would lie with them as long as they closed their eyes and were quiet. Which they did and usually fell asleep.
Although as I said earlier I have got up with them for an hour or so and then gone back to bed when they've nodded off again.
I suppose it depends which approach you want to take.

Oh, I didn't do the tickle, believe me, he did> I also told him that I would lie next to him if he kept quiet and closed his eyes, but he didn't do those things, instead he tried constantly to get my attention, and instead of relaxing him, my staying there did just the opposite. In fact, I can remember well, that already at story time, he started getting all excited, fidgeting, moving around. As if he wanted to wake himself up. So of course, I also got up and went out, then went back again, when he was crying...

charley, I don't think you should do the gradually check on her less and less. I think you should go in every time, and do the exact same thing, saying the exact same words, or whatever you decide to communicate. The point is, that it shouldn't be a rough plan, I mean it is rough for you, but in the end, she learns to cope with your support, not in a rough way, and that's what's important.

I would probably have got up with him, then

I think there are more than two ways to skin a cat - about everything.

I think everyone on here is right.

Take what you feel is wortha try for your DD and then try it and see what happens.

My pennies worth is to keep her in nursery but to make sure you have some serious quality one to one 'mummy time' with her every day for at least half an hour PLUS get her to nap with you when baby naps in the day maybe 1-2 per week if you think that will work. ie, you settle the baby and then you and her climnb in to your bed together and just have a silent cuddle. If she drops off, great but if she doesn't and starts to get wriggly, you both get up and read a story or something. I think that she will find boundaries reassuring and cuddles and fun stuff with you in the day invaluable. My DD always becomes wakeful in the night if she's feeling insecure and I 'fix' it by upping one to one in the day and being very firm no nonsense at night. That's what works for us with her. It may be different with DS.....

but Juuule, isn't getting up with him totally reinforcing his bad habit? Is that what you really want in such a situation? You are trying to encourage him to settle in, support him in his coping process, and normalize sleeping habits. Aren't you doing then the exact opposite by following his unwanted behaviour?

Maybe? I'm just saying what worked for us. I got up with them for an hour during which time they played a bit, might have had something to eat and then settled down to sleep. Much better than wrangling with an upset toddler for a couple of hours or an hour that seemed like forever. It stopped as they got a bit older and grew out of it.

Hi there...
I don't have loads of time to read all the posts (sorry) but I agree with the general comment to do what your instincts tell you.

I'll just tell you what we did. I've never been a co-sleeping/shushing to sleep type and in fact DS is worse when we do that than when we leave him - it seems to wind him up. He's on the whole a good sleeper but last Sept/Oct we went through a phase of night wakings and then 4.30- 5am starts. I was 5 months pregnant at the time and working and very tired- we had also only been in our new house a month or so and he'd moved rooms at nursery. We tried light on the landing/ door ajar/cuddles/going in and out....with him demanding drink/cuddle/sortingout his bedclothes - you name it he had it up his sleeve. In the end I'm afraid the only thing that worked for us (I was knackered and at my wits end and it felt like I'd soon lose it with him) was putting the baby monitor back in his room and when he woke rather than physically going in which appeared to wind him up even more (and also made him demand more) I would say, very firmly down the monitor (it's a talk back one), that we were all asleep and that he had to go back too or lie quietly but we were not going in. I put a beaker in his bed with water in it and then as long as I knew he wasn't sickening for something we might have to do this a few times. For us that confirmed to him that we were still here and that he wasn't alone but that we weren't going to play games. The re-assurance could take a while some nights. After that got a bit better but we got stuck with that scenario too so we then left him to yell on and off for about 3 consecutive nights and he then got the message.....We also were dropping his daytime nap so he was so overtired but once he started sleeping better we got out of the vicious cycle.

We're going through a little phase again (!) co-inciding with birth of new baby who is now 15 weeks and potty training. We've done the light on a timer now so that he's not allowed to yell til the light comes on. It has sporadic success ...when he's quiet he gets a marble in the pot and then a gift after 10 marbles (believe me I was desperate again) - baby is sleeping well which is typical and he's regressed. He does though know as he says "mummy I'll be quiet if I wake up early" - he often I think comes too and doesn't really know he's cried out and then goes off.....

Sorry for the ramble but thought I'd give you a different perspective.

PS I've also tried to take special days with DS since DD arrived so maybe my mum takes DD for the day (she loves this) and then we go off and have one to one time. I've found his behaviour improves a lot when we get chance to do this and to be honest, I love it as I miss our time we used to have together just us. I think personally keep her in nursery....it will pass -a lot has been going on in her little world and DS always goes a bit funny sleep wise when changes are afoot and he has always been a 7pm to bed and up around 6.30ish....

Thank you for all your time and advice. We had a plan in our heads but didn't have to use it. She woke twice shouting 'no' for about 5-10 secs and then went back to sleep. She then woke at 6 and her daddy went in and said it was still sleep time and left her door open and she chatted happily to her toys for half an hour. We've since had 2 hours together until her brother just woke.
Thank you again.

Great
Long may it last.

wow, nice to hear!

I may have a different post tomorrow of course!

Great - it might be two steps forward and one back but the key with toddlers i think when they are this age is to be consistent - so at least if you have a plan you can use it if you need to and they start to get the message (However sloooooowly)!...

Grrrrrrrrrrr
Had another bad night last night. On and off crying between 2-4am. She stops crying as soon as we go in and may then stay quiet for 10-15 mins before starting up again so it's not as if we're dealing with a child who wails non stop (not yet anyway). My question is if I do conrolled crying quite gently, how long should I leave her to cry before I go in the first time, 2nd time etc? We have to crack this.
She slept through from 11 weeks until around 2 and a bit, does this mean there is hope for us to get a night's sleep in the near future?!

FYI DS (10 wks) is doing really well at sleeping. Ying and yang!