How to handle 4-year-old twins with selective deafness, constantly pushing boundaries and not eating?

[BlueEyedMaid]

Considered posting this on multiple births board but decided any replies from people who've dealt with 4-year-olds - one or several at a time - would be great so here goes:

I have twin boys who are generally lovely, happy and well behaved. But recently they've started consistently not listening to my instructions to do/not do something. I have to be very forceful with my words to get them to listen and even then they often go straight on to doing exactly what I just asked them not to. This feels so draining and irritating and sometimes it can be plain dangerous, i.e. if we're out and about and they won't stop at a crossing.

Lunch & dinner time have also become hard going - they often announce that they don't like whatever I'm giving them before they've even seen, let alone tried it, and take foreeeeeever to finish their plates. I'm starting to dread mealtimes wheras before they were fun and easy, most of the time. We have been through picky phases before so I use old strategies like not giving them pudding if they don't eat dinner. I've also given them more say over what they want to have. But it doesn't seem to have much effect.

Overal I find myself shouting at them, getting stressed and lacking patience. I hate being punitive, giving them definite consequences by losing privileges (treats & telly) when they step out of line, but I have always felt that keeping them into line is the only way I'll prevent them from walking all over me. Most of the time things work fine and we have a great relationship, but it does feel like a bit much at the moment. I know they are only doing what they're programmed to do aged 4 and a bit, but it feels so negative and it is exhausting.

So - any tips on how to survive this stage with your sanity intact would be much appreciated.

forget terrible twos, its this age that ddrives me mad.
Youngest ds has all the same symptoms, so i will keep an eye on this thread for ideas.

Do you praise them when they do what you want?

Yes, I praise them - always have done. And I feel so guilty when I tell them off that I always make sure to follow up with praise as soon as they do something 'right' again. I am quite stressed and anxious at the moment due to recession worries, and this does give me a shorter fuse than I usually have. Definitely need to work on telling them off without shouting/getting angry. But it's so hard when you're feeling down - shouting at small people is such an easy way to offload. And it escalates so easily to shouting when they don't listen to me when I'm speaking normally. But then of course everyone ends up sad, so it's a bit of a vicious cycle. My mother shouted at me, so I know how horrible it feels.

I've read a bit about the 4-year stage and know it would be abnormal if they weren't pushing boundaries and not listening sometimes. So I suppose what I'm really hoping for is some advice on coping strategies - how to handle difficult behaviour like this without losing my rag, how to respond to the dinner time scenario, etc. And how long does this stage carry on for, in your experiences?

Yes, I praise them - always have done. And I feel so guilty when I tell them off that I always make sure to follow up with praise as soon as they do something 'right' again. I am quite stressed and anxious at the moment due to recession worries, and this does give me a shorter fuse than I usually have. Definitely need to work on telling them off without shouting/getting angry. But it's so hard when you're feeling down - shouting at small people is such an easy way to offload. And it escalates so easily to shouting when they don't listen to me when I'm speaking normally. But then of course everyone ends up sad, so it's a bit of a vicious cycle. My mother shouted at me, so I know how horrible it feels.

I've read a bit about the 4-year stage and know it would be abnormal if they weren't pushing boundaries and not listening sometimes. So I suppose what I'm really hoping for is some advice on coping strategies - how to handle difficult behaviour like this without losing my rag, how to respond to the dinner time scenario, etc. And how long does this stage carry on for, in your experiences?

Oops! Sorry to repeat myself...

Hmm.. think I might post this on multiple births as well..

BEM, I have b/g twins who are 4.5 and I have DD1 who is 8.

Its hard. Especially when you can feel a bit ganged up on. BUT I find the best way is to be consistent...... I try to stay positive with everything, I try to encourage team work and sometimes it helps if my children feel they are on the same side against me. I get them to set the table before I can serve up, they feel they have won a battle and I can reward them. FUN is a great tool. Sometimes I let mine eat dinner in the bath (got to choose what we have with care though!!! )

I take them unaware and sometimes set them a little table of their own (their play table) in a corner of the kitchen, they are so taken aback with eating from the teaset in an unusual place that food disappears into their mouths without thinking. ANYTHING to make it different and fun.

Of course, sometimes nothing will work and then, in our house, its 3 warnings and you are out. On the third warning of chucking food around or really bad manners you leave the table. You get one last chance and if you blow that you leave and don't come back. I've only ever had to do it once. But you do need to be consistent so that they know you mean what you say. Its the age-old recipe of being fun, firm and fair.

For a while I thought all I had to do was to introduce new foods, presented in new ways.....then I exhausted myself and reverted to making just what I wanted to serve them. Its taken a while (I read an article that said it can take 20 tastes of a food before a child accepts it, as their taste buds taste more intensively than adults) but my three children have just, in the last month, began eating whatever I put in front of them. I feel its a major breakthrough as has taken months and years to get to this. They are newly adventurous and its bliss!

Sorry for going on and on. Don't give up.

We girls of multiples have a daily chat thread which you are more than welcome to join. Sometimes it moves quick, sometimes slow, sometimes we giggle and sometimes we cry. Bring wine and you have the password

Thanks for the reply frumpygrumpy - in some ways I do think this is a twin thing. Although all 4-yr olds seem to behave like this it's so frustrating when two are doing it at once.

Your ideas are great and made me smile - dinner in the bath means you're a very patient and fun mummy indeed!
I'll try to your tips to inject some fun into the meals again.

I've also heard that about tasting something many times and it's a relief to hear it does actually work in practice and that they come out the other end actually open to and happy to eat new foods. I can't stand watching them painfully chew mouthful after agonisingly slow mouthful, but there isn't really an alternative when I know the food tastes nice and the meal itself isn't that challenging. It's like the power struggle saps all enjoyment from their eating - they know I've 'won' and that they have to eat as there will be nothing else. Depressing! Can't wait for this phase to be over. Will definitely take a look at your other thread - I self-medicate with wine...

Four's a bugger - honestly they're tyrants, and you've got two of them, so you're more than allowed to find it hard going. Fwiw,I find matter of fact is best, and trying to head things off before they've happened works best. So crossing roads/ not stopping - before we go out, I gently say okay if you don't stop then we won't go to park/ read books when we get back - or whatever he likes doing. Eating food, if he starts to play up I first ignore it and carry on doing what I'm doing and then casually say, well that's a shame as if you don't eat you won't get your pudding. Don't tell them what pudding is, just let them salivate... . And so it goes on and on and on. I nag and hate myself for it too - sometimes you just have to. But if you can find the energy to keep positive and one step ahead of them it usually works. Here's hoping five's better.

Yes! Five's bound to be better. Isn't it?

Glad to see you over on the multiple thread - give you about a week over there and you will be so barking mad you wont care what your twins are doing LOL

...and, whatever they all say about me (unless it is really good) is a pack of lies....

I identify with this - my boy twins are now 5 and my DS1 is only 20months older than them, so we had all this at mealtimes and going out, etc. I got so sick of repeating myself, not just two or three times, but multiple times to each child as well. It was driving me insane. So one thing I started doing was to say something, then if there was no reaction, to say it again more firlmy, and on the third time instead of yelling, I would ask them what I had just said. I could then work out whether they had been deliberatly not responding or whether they had been miles away in their heads. Somehow, hearing their brother say it would make the other two sit up and listen (as I'm sure they've learnt to blank my voice) and then they would start to do what I had just asked them too.

The other thing I've done is put lists up everywhere for the stuff I feel I keep going over again and again. So we have five rules for mealtimes (with pictures) and so instead of always saying the same thing, I sometimes just point to it to get my point across. And we have morning routines up, so instead of saying 'Come one! You should have your shoes on by now!' I can say, 'Okay, where are we up to boys? What's next?' Then they feel like they are taking a bit more initiative.

It is hard when you have more than one of a similar age. I think they quite often watch each other out of the corner of their eyes to see if another one has responded yet, and if not, they presume they are safe because they are not going to be the only one in trouble. It's easier to hide in a crowd than be the only one picked out. There is this group mentality, which sometimes is helpful (when you can cheer them on as if you are all teammates; 'Yeah! Woohoo! We made it into car, now let's get to school! Go Team [Insert Last Name]!) but works against you a lot of the time too.

Hope that helps

I have twins that are 4.6 and twins that are 8. They do gang up on you....stay strong and stick to your guns..they are doing a random test!

Perhaps tell them that you were hoping to go to the park/wherever today but can't. When they ask why tell them because they can't cross the roads nice and safely. When they promise that they will then take them..its them that will want to prove to you that they can do it. If they do act as promised then before leaving that destination then talk about another outing that you could go on as they had behaved so good and go on from there.

Dinner time, they either eat the food that you have made them or they will go hungry. Don;t change your mind and give lots of praise to the twin that eventually gives in and eats. It might take a while days/weeks but you will win in the end!!

Oh My Word - TWO sets of twins!!!! WOW

Wow - how did you react at the first scan when they told you it was another set?

Very much appreciate the comments & ideas - I shall stand firm and try to be fun !

I could see for myself on the scan blueeyedmaid, i was almost an expert after the being scanned so often with the first set..when you have non-id twins already then there is a high chance of conceiving another set!!!!!

I'm not the only one!! there is a mum about on here with triplets and twins (or the other way round).

I can see why you believe in fairies - even with non-IDs you have to be pretty lucky to be blessed with another set! It's like winning the lottery - twice! I have ID boys so am hedging my bets that the eggs are coming out one at at time, although twins again wouldn't be so bad... would it?? Not enjoying this particular stage though, really am not.