give it to me fair and square - how much of this is normal for almost 3 - really need to know

[hereidrawtheline]

we have been having problems with DS who is 3 in August since he turned 2. For this reason he was "loosely" considered ASD. He is now being really much more intensively looked into by a great specialist. However what I really want is to hear from other Mums - SN and NT - how much of this is normal and I need to suck it up and deal with it with discipline. I should say we do discipline him with verbal warnings, things like, taking toy away if he hits with it, explanations about why the rules are etc. But we dont do TO. We tried it for a couple of months and it was horrible and taught him nothing so we dropped it. It was really disproportionate the amount he got upset.

Ok so a brief rundown -

has obvious sensory issues, major wind phobia, light issues, touch sensitive. Just holding his hand on a road he will cry and scream you are hurting his hand.

He is extremely verbal - he has an obvious problem with speech in pronouncing things which has been noted by specialist but his vocab is huge and he speaks in normal complete sentences with all the right words etc.

He throws horrible tantrums, and screams and shouts very nastily when he doesnt get his own way, i.e. having to come in from the garden after playing for an hour.

He wont play on his own at all.

He never ever stops talking and usually extremely loudly.

He deliberately starts shouting in my face when I have to take a phone call - I will leave the room because I cant hear and he will follow me and if I shut a door he will bang on it and scream. This is very embarrassing on the phone and makes my life so difficult.

He refuses to be alone, if I go to the bathroom for a quick wee he is there with me. He will follow me from room to room right behind me so I am a nervous wreck he is always making me trip over him and I dont want to accidentally hurt him.

He spat in my face yesterday when I said it was time to cut his fingernails I have to say in his defence he is truly a lovely affectionate child who normally just adores me and is very funny and kind but his anger is getting so much. Also he has never seen anyone spit in anyone else's face before I dont know where he came up with that one.

When you are cooking dinner he will go mental every night because it isnt already on the table ready he just has no concept of waiting at all.

He cries constantly about being hurt if I stub my toe or in the most recent instance when I cried out in pain because he hit me he then started crying saying he was hurt and wont stop.

Simple things like getting him dressed are a total nightmare. He doesnt help you at all, he doesnt help move his legs or anything and is usually working against you.

He whines loads and ... oh fuck it. I dont know. I am sure I am moaning about what every other mother goes through. He is just so difficult, so intense, he is always underfoot shouting or making demands or whatever. I am just feeling so pissed off at the moment.

I do not spoil him. I regularly do age appropriate corrections but I dont know if I should be doing more. He is getting too rude for my liking with things like the phone and obeying me & his Dad etc. He is very very clever and creative and makes up very intricate stories and very funny and sweet and follows me around and says I am pretty & he loves me etc. He really is not all bad.

I think I am just trying to ascertain if this really is the "terrible twos" or SN. I had decided in my heart it was SN of some sort but I am not sure now.

I can relate to many of the difficulties you've got. Sensory, aggresive, speech, impatience, and yes she does sometimes lick herself when going to bed. 9not always and not now that she is 10 but certainly at 3).

My dd was prescribed glasses at 3, she is extremely long-sighted and will not grow out of them. this can account for a lot of frustrated, aggresive, speech, and behaviour difficulties. But the sensory issues we were told was from birth. she was a sicky, chokey baby and apparently this did not help her sensory system regulate itself. we were to ld that yoga will help reset this. Weve been doing yoga for about 9 months now and she loves it. As dd is 10 when we found out about benefits of yoga, she also started cognitive, behavioural therapy for anger and panic management. She would have fears of the house falling down or of indoor car parks.

She has not been diagnosed with any behavioural disorder other than a list of sensory, panic, anger issues. otherwise she is a normal, intelligent, healthy ,loving girl - but drives you crazy with obsessiveness and aggression.

dd did also have a heart problem diagnosed at 8yrs involving rapid heart beat and a corrective operation . This is also included in reasons why she may become panicky and unsettled for no obvious reason.

Hang in there, try everything your offered, progress is slow but your child is worth it, certainly sensory issues can have a huge effect. seeing an occupational therapist can help with suitable excercises. We also are doing the listening program for auditory sensitivity.

We do what we call zero tolerance with dd, by which we mean drawing the line immedieately there is any behaviour issue, this seems to work and quickens her ability to get herself back in control. TO never worked well for us either until she became older and understood the benefits better. Now she can do breathing excercises in her room if need be, but she still bites on a teether to calm her. If it helps then ok with me. Better than biting me! It's hard when your child requires so much imput to get through a day, but they will thank you for your imput one day, don't give up!

Yes, DS2 does lick his arms and hands a lot! What is that about?!!

oh just read that this is your first and last child. If that's because of the exhausting time your'e having i can really sympathise. We waited 7 years to have my ds now 3yrs. I couldn't contemplate another child until then and then it was just a now or never body clock decision. But i am so pleased we had another child. ds is the complete opposite of dd in every way, a real pleasure to have around and makes parenting easy. He seems to have more logic in his little 3 years than ds in her 10. I like to think he is my little reward for hard work and perseverence with ds. although i love them both to bits, it was harder to connect and understand ds, it never came as a natural osmosis like you imagin parenting should be, because of her behaviour. but ds definately has proved that it's not my parenting skills that are to blame, as so often you wonder what you are doing wrong, when in fact it is not that way at all.

i would just like to say that my 2 year 10 month old has done all of the things you've mentioned within the last year, i really do think we are too quick to label children when they actually just need more time to come to terms with their place in the world.

my little girl is also obsessed with smells, where the cat is, rubbing her brothers head, and having a special object but just for that day.

don't be hard on yourself jut take deep breaths, explain what you're going to do well before you do it, this helped with ours (even if she pretended not to hear) and stick with whichever way you choose to disiplin him(it can be hardbreaking at first but they quickly catch on) and remember to give lots of rewards for good behaviour get a big jar with little poundshop toys and sweets it they love picking out of the jar.

hope some of this helps.

I think maybe almost two is too young for charts-but what about games-f.e.-the silence game-what mad fun!!! Who can be silent the longest? Or a game of, "I hear with my little ear..." My DS responded well to the challenge of, "I bet you can't do this!" and loved, loved, loved to watch me do simple mime routines.

Sorry-meant almost three.

thanks very much, can I just say I love the idea of a poundshop jar and DS would love that too! Thanks for all your thoughts & ideas.

morningsun I understand it seems I am overly worrying but really I am not. His behaviour is off the charts much of the time and it is demanding our lives revolve around it to an almost exclusive level. I dont want a label for him, I think with this thread what I am looking for is from other Mums telling me if this stuff falls into the remit of normal toddler crap. Because I like to know what I am dealing with. I am waiting for the professionals to do their thing with him but for my own peace of mind... you know I cant take him anywhere with other children and adults without there being a massive scene and the looks of pity and disdain from other mothers make me question if they have selective memories with their own children (or in the case of babies only having rose tinted glasses) or if I am indeed doing something wrong or if he is trying to cope with toddlerdom with extra SN.

I dont want everything to be perfect and I am truly his greatest defender wrt reminding myself, DH and others of his brilliance, loveliness and age but most days I end the day feeling like I have had the shit beat out of me emotionally and physically. And this is for almost a year. I question the normality of that.

I think you have to trust your own instincts, which it sounds like you are doing - even without being an expert you can see what other children of his age are doing and how they react to things. It is the same with my DS2, although I know all kids are different and I try not to compare him directly to DS1 but I knew from about 3 that he was reacting differently to others. It's nothing you are doing wrong - you are obviously a caring and loving mum who is doing her best for her child.

It can be incredibly tiring looking after a demanding child - do you get any time for yourself? Sometimes just having a break can make you more able to cope. Can DH take DS out for a bit at the weekends to let you have a bit of a break, or do you have family nearby? If the nursery can't take him for more sessions, can you get a childminder for day/afternoon etc to help?

case in point: DH just got home from taking DS to GP to check for glue ear (his ears are fine btw) DS came in lovely bringing me a daff he had picked. Then asked for some chocolate. We said no as dinner is cooking, but he could have a little after dinner. We offered a rich tea biscuit instead to tide him over. He went into immediate full tantrum screaming etc awfully then we just kind of shrugged and said "look DS you cant have it til after dinner" and then changed the subject. He took a moment to collect himself, took the biscuit offered, started eating it quietly and we were happy-ish then looking at me he kicked me as hard as he could. I was barefoot and he was wearing shoes, it hurt, and I yelled a sort of shocked "Ow!" & it came out of nowhere. DH took DS into his room immediately. I got upset as this is my life pretty much all waking hours, the ups and downs and punching bag thing.

DS was crying and asked for me so I went in as I know he cant help it to some extent and wanted to cuddle him. I opened my arms in invitation & he screamed at me "no I dont want to cuddle you" so I just sat there. A minute later he cuddled me and said sorry. Now he is watching t.v. but I think I am going to go lie down in bed while DH cooks dinner as I just cant enjoy his company right now. I am just at my limit.

I know this is a little incident but honestly we get several of these an hour and I just feel so crap about it.

Yes it is hard but I'm saying you need to get a more pragmatic handle on it instead of all these incidents really getting you down and worked up with him~lots of toddlers hit and don't apologise and sibling rivalry can be a killer but try not to let it get to you.

well they dont always really get me down. I usually go 3 weeks at a time feeling optimistic and pragmatic and like water off a ducks back and then a week where I want to crawl in a hole and be left alone. This week is that week.

here thats good but try to work out a plan and run with it rather than worrying over each new thing.
A lot[most if not all] of it does sound normal but you've asked for an assessment and i guess you are thinking of AS~surely its too young to diagnose atm.
One thing I found with mine is behaviour can be more difficult when both parents are there ~is he better when you are just you and he?

Right ...ds (nearly 12 aspergers/dyspraxia dx)
Honestly? it sounds like a mixture of the sn and also his age.
i can relate to some of the things on your list... (the opposite things to mrs ruffalo actually...so maybe its the sn side of things) Errrm...sensory issues, the cutting of nails (nightmare), getting dressed,early speech (8 months in ds case.. 12 months talking in sentences), frustration ..anger...(but not aggressiveness,hitting,spitting),no concept of time(oh yep)

The ball episode sounded exactly like my ds tbh..he would be engrossed with trains or cars by himself while other children were engaging in social interaction ...he just wouldn't be interested.

The getting dressed description also rang loud bells with me.

Is there anyway you can hurry on the assessment do you think? phone them up maybe?

it all sounds very hard on everyone

We did do timeout with ds...he was very tantrumy at about 2-3 and started to get very 'controlling' about things. We were very strict looking back. He seemed to be distressed at the lack of bounderies (if that makes sense). I now realise that it was because he was never sure what was going to happen next or where he was. We found really clear rules helpful with him...and a timetable of events was even more helpful. He did get quite distressed at time out at first (but not much worse than my friends children who i observed in the same situations) Within a few weeks he generally seemed much calmer.