DS's speech is not right

[lljkk]

He's nearly 5yo, gets IEP time at school for poor speech. Is on waiting list for NHS speech therapy. His hearing has been tested and came out ok.

NHS assessment mostly just said that he mixed up t and c sounds. But DS speech is so much screwier than that. For instance:

• He can do most the correct sounds at the start of a word, but often leaves them out or skips them in middle/ends of words (but he is getting better over time).

• He often leaves out connecting small words, and I'm not sure he hears other people say them, either.

• He has a very limited vocabulary compared to older siblings at same age.

• Often he tortuously searches for the right word, and then

• when he does find the words he wants, he makes the most bizarre grammarical constructions for sentences. Can be completely incomprehensible.

• We often have bizarre conversations like this: after swimming yesterday DS sat with one of his swim classmates while I queued to ask pool receptionist something. As we walked away we had this chat:

Me: What was the name of your friend?
DS: Who?
Me: That little girl you were talking to.
DS: Who?
Me: The little girl in your swim class who you were talking to?
DS: Who you mean?
Me: That little girl you were talking to -- the little girl you said was dressed like a princess?! And you said she was 4 years old like you?
DS: She not in my class.
Me: She is in your class.
DS: But she not in my class at school!
Me: But she is in your swim class.
DS: Oh.
Me: What is her name?
DS: I don't know.

Conversations like that drive me nuts.
I sometimes wonder if DS has a specific language disorder or is this possibly on the normal spectrum, allowing for 'speech delay'?

lljkk,

re doing nothing for a language delay: I think the key problem would be difficulties accessing the curriculum which might lead to him "switching off" from education (as many boys tend to do if they hit difficulties). If he had a private tutor instead it might be absolutely fine to leave it well alone!

tclanger do you live near me? There is a SEN school called the Meath near me - I'm also in the SE!

lljkk I have just come back from dds latest Johansen appointment the difference in her hearing test was amazing. Her worst frequency went from 45 decibels to about 15, absolutely everything improved it was so fabulous - she's only had one listening CD from them and listened to it for 6 weeks. The therapist did say it was amazing progress, more than he had hoped for as he felt from her initial tests that it could have gone either way and telling me that her hearing could not be improved.

I asked him about what NHS SALT and hearing are taught about the neuro processes and he said that although they study them & learn all about how they work etc they are not told that they can be changed. All the listening does is expand the brains usage of the area in each hemisphere that process sound - the brain is like a muscle so exploit in the correct way and it will learn to do stuff.

I am so thrilled, her improvement has been so dramatic that he will be able to use her results as evidence that it works as she is having no other treatment, not speech therapy anything.

In June '08 when she was 2.10 she was assessed as advanced language skills and moderate speech delay when she was reassessed 8.5 months later at 3.5 her speech had not progressed at all (comparing the same basic words they got her to say) however she is now learning new words correctly so hopefully speech therapy will help her relearn her original speech.

HTH

lljkk - re:doing nothing. Doing something sensible - whether it's arranging further NHS or private SALT or getting suitable books/info from internet and working yourself with him - well it's never going to do any harm is it? the danger of doing nothing is that it presupposes that one day your DS will make a spontaneous leap in his language - and yes, sometimes kids can come on very quickly, and get over a developmental hurdle - but if he doesn't then he may become unhappy and frustrated - as language does have a knock on effect on social skills. also if his understanding is in anyway behind then it will be hard for him - a bit like if we had been expected to do our lessons in French when we only had French GCSE say! it's very important that teachers realise that if a child with difficulties understanding language doesn't comply with instructions it may be because of difficulty understanding them rather than disobedience! if you know that a child has a difficulty understanding then you can adapt your speech to their level and/or add in visual supports, and make things easier on everyone. btw I am not saying your ds definitely has difficulties understanding - but it is IMO something well worth exploring with SALT, as children with language problems can incredibly adept at blagging it.

Regarding doing nothing: DD2 had speech delay due to glue ear, finally when she was nearly 5 and already 2 terms through reception class she had grommets put in, the difference in her was unbelievable her confidence absolutely soared she went from being a quiet withdrawn child in the classroom to the child who was known as "the one who puts her hand up the most" by the October of that year. I also know that dd4 gets frsutrated when I don't understand her, I suspect she is actually the brightest of my 3 youngest children and her speech delay does bother her and makes her seem younger.

Sadly I think there is little help you will get on the NHS

DS can follow instructions, he gets very angry when other people don't follow the rules.
But he does seem to get very frustrated and shouty in general.
He can sulk like nobody's business.

And he is very confused (has little confidence) in new situations because he can't figure out how things are "supposed" to be done -- I suspect this is could at least partly be a receptive language problem.

For me it will be a huge hassle (physically) to drag him off to private speech therapy. I have 3 other children who generally drive DH batty, but dragging them along to appointments would also drive me batty -- there would be a LOT of driving to get DS to any sort of private therapy. Plus I don't like unnecessary interventions on principle.

But I'm taking on board all that you all say.

sorry to hijack but:

" m muddled pro nouns and only learned the WH questions last year, so 'What you did that' could have meant 'Why did you do that "

DS2 (3.7, receptive language delay) has (happily) had a language explosion (vocabulary has doubled since Christmas) but as the dust settles it's now clear to me that he does have problems with understanding both pronouns and "wh.." questions. Yet I clearly remember asserting he had no problem with either six months ago on this board! Isn't it funny how sometimes you can't see the extent and nature of their problems until they have progressed further? I wish speech therapists could explain this in a nice way and then we'd feel less defensive when they do their assessments.

Anyway he's fortunate enough to have no problems with verbs or "kinds" (he will say "that special bird's called a peacock"). And we've had a few past tenses. And when I said one day "did you play outside?" (at nursery) he said "Yes, I played trains". I nearly fell over.

ime private salt will come to your house. but I appreciate that time/money constraints may mean private salt is impossible. I appreciate what you say about unnecessary intervention - but it's really not likely to be intrusive - you are likely to be given a programme of work for him/some exercises to do with him

I'm so with you on the having 3 other dc to drag places, trying to make appointments when the others can be accommodated etc. I stumbled into the Johansen therapy by accident, dd4 has speech therapy starting in May only 4 sessions I think but they only tell you what sounds to start to work on and give you the tools to do it with -having done it all with dd2 I know all this, would rather they just told me which sounds now and send me the jolly phonics to do the games with and let us get on with it without the bind of the appointments!

I'm so surprised that you don't have a school nearer and that the Meath is such a specialist school!!!

I just want dd4 to be able to say "yes" because her "yes" sounds more like most peoples "no" and it is very confusing to toher people and sometimes us!

tclanger that is appaling. The complete lack of holistic approach in the NHS generally drives me mad. dd1 has never been able to breathe through her nose and has huge often smelly tonsils but ENT discharged her, the orthodontists all agree that she has a severe orthodontic problem but won't treat it until she's 14 so in the end I've paid to have a private skeletal expansion appliance which will solve both issues without the need for major jaw surgery (which she could have on the NHS!) drives me demented.

Your LEA's attitude to statementing is appalling but it's all about money isn't it.