Discipline. 2.5 yr old. Should I? How?

[Laugs]

I hate the idea of discipline, especially in the context of someone so small. But she's started doing quite dangerous things that I am worried about.

We live in an upstairs flat and she's started being really silly on the stairs, walking so her feet are two or three steps ahead of her head and she's practically upside down! I have been holding her hand, but today I tried not holding her hand because I thought surely she would not be so silly to do this without a hand held. She did! She went almost upside down again and lent her head back on my tummy as I was behind her. I ended up carying her up (again) but I am pregnant and can't keep that up.

I've tried telling her I'm really cross (which she mimics), I've shouted (she didn't care), and I'veasked her to stand in her bedroom for 2 minutes (she did it but wasn't bothered and just played with toys). Any ideas??

bump

Try the other way round - offer a reward if she does it properly, no reward if she doesn't?

Remember discipline is not punishment, never feel guilty about discipline, your child needs it to feel secure, to have bounderies and guidance.

Iklboo is right, praise and rewards are far more effective.

Shouting shows that you've lost calm control of the situation.

Time out works really well but it has to be a REALLY REALLY BORING place, I like the bottom of the stairs because DS can't reach his toys or see the TV.

She also needs to learn about risk and danger. I let DS go down stairs without holding hands. He has fallen (with me stood infront, ready to catch, obv) but he soon learnt to be careful.

Explain calmly that "you love DD and never want her to get hurt. Playing on the stairs is dangerous and she must not do it, if you do you will have a Time Out" (or whatever you feel is suitable discipline) and most importantly, follow it through.

You could try reading Toddler Taming by Dr Christopher Green.

DS gets 'naughty stepped' if he's really crossed the line. Usually we can get him to stop being naughty by distracting him or threatening to remove a reward (which DOES get removed if he doesn't stop being naughty).

You have to find what works for you and her . I would make a start now before the baby arrives so you know what to do in a dangerous situation. I find holding dd looking at her in the eye and a Stern NO works sometimes. Taking her away from where she is the centre of attention always works . As far as time out is concerned you have to be consistent keep putting back on the step for the time you have decided until she understands and will behave when she comes back.
Stairs - try counting them , thinking of an animal name for every step or a colour or a name . They might take longer to go up or down but it works ( I have 40 to do !)

Thanks everyone. Just re-read my post and it sounds like I 'tried shouting', as if that is a good idea. I didn't, I just shouted as I thought she was going to fall. Still didn't work though!

HopeForTheBestExpectTheWorst I'm pleased to see it's not just my DD that thinks this is a great game! I think I would be too scared to leave her on the stairs on her own though. That's just me - I'm a wimp.

We don't have any steps (except for the stairs our flat is at the top of) so I was kind of trying to do the naughty step thing with asking her to stay in her room for 2 minutes. To be honest, her bedroom is probably the least interesting place in our flat and the only place I could leave her on her own (she'd love to stay in the bathroom, especially now she can climb in and out of the bath!)

We did have a little talk about an hour ago about how she must be very very careful on the stairs, but it's hard to know how much went in. We had the exact same chat yesterday.

Maybe I will try the reward system instead. She is already getting stickers for potty training so I will have to think of something else exciting. I'll also try counting/ naming the stairs.

Littlepurpleprincess how old was your DS when you let him walk down on his own?

Honestly? I suspect the fastest way of learning for her will be a fall, especially if she's as generally fearless and independent as our ds1, and as your post indicates!

DS1 was an early walker and tried to climb stairs within days of being on his feet! I was terrified to begin with but we realised we just had to teach him properly or he would do some real damage. Going upstairs was done on all fours in the early stages and then standing and holding the banisters and bringing both feet onto each step in turn. Going down was the same, first on bottoms, then both feet to each step iyswim. By 2 he was able to use his legs in turn too.

In terms of how we got him to do it, I think we just showed him how to do it with lots of praise when he got it right, and he did take to it well. We've never held his hand except is the very early stages. Whenever he's messed about on the stairs we've always warned him that he'll hurt himself if he falls, and yes, he's had two big falls - one from top to bottom aged just under 2. He's now very careful indeed!

I don't think I'd go with physical rewards like chocolate etc as it's basic safety behaviour not an optional extra, but equally just shouting isn't working. Try not being physically next to her on the stairs for a day. I'm fairly sure that she's doing it because she knows you'll be there to catch her. Do you reckon she will still deliberately throw herself around if you're not right next to her? I wonder if by telling her, and then creating a physical gap between you (ie she can't just reach out and grab you or be supported by you) she'll realise she has to take control herself.

Yes, I think she is doing it because she knows I will catch her. I will try standing a few steps below her and see if that helps.

You may well have to accept that she will have a little fall - can you do that, or is that a non-negotiable outcome for you? If she starts doing it at the bottom of a climb, then at least there's less likelihood of a long way to go In the long run she does need to learn about (and accept) her own physical and safety limits, and she'll only do that by truly believing and knowing that you are not there to rescue her in every situation.

You need to get her to understand that a boundary her mummy gives her is there for a reason - her safety or someone else's. (Quite soon the new babies!)
My 2.6 yr old dd has had timeout for past 6 months. In your situation best thing is to use a chair. If she continues to do something you've asked her not to do, warn her she'll have to sit down for timeout. When she does it again, pick her up as soon as you can, and sit her on a kitchen chair, which is pulled away from table, toys etc... Sit next to her on another chair, but look away, not at her. If she gets off, put her back on. After two minutes, get her to say sorry for ignoring mummy, and then have a lovely long cuddle.

I didn't do any of his with DC1, and when DC2 was born it was so hard. In the end I snapped after she ran away (wanting me to chase her as she thought it was funny) in a carpark and was nearly knocked over. I got strict at that point. DC2 and now DC3 have had much more tightly enforced boundaries and its easier to do it from the start.

sparkle12mar08 she only starts to do it when we're about 2/3 of the way upstairs, so it would be quite a big fall - about 8 steps. I don't think I could deliberately allow her to fall, even if it would help in the long run.

I am going to try standing a few steps behind her and if she does it again I'll do the sitting on the chair timeout. If my muddled pregnant brain can think of ANY treat that isn't a sticker, I might do that but might try to make it not specifically about the stairs, just for bring a good girl. I sound confused don't I? It's way past my bedtime.

you could try - If you walk upstairs properly then when we get to the top we can have a snack/you can choose a film/whatever she likes doing... get her all excited about it and if she messes around on the stairs then she gets nothing. you have to be very strict. explain to her that if she falls she'll really hurt herself and that's why you have to be very strict about not playing on the stairs.

so basically if she does it 'properly' she gets loads of praise and a treat (not sweets), and if she doesn't then she has to do something really boring, like sit on the landing with no toys for two minutes. if she ends up in 'time out' or whatever you want to call it, encourage her to think about why it's happened and how she can avoid it happening next time.

i'll bet if you said to her 'i'm not playing games on the stairs, it's not safe, and i don't want you to either' and just left her to walk up on her own she probably wouldn't mess around, but i understand that you might not want to take that risk.

also, you said:

I might do that but might try to make it not specifically about the stairs, just for bring a good girl.

actually i think you should make it specifically about the stairs because she needs to learn to be careful on the stairs, that's the whole point.

not sure how old she is, but i assume she's still small (under 3?) and i think at that age asking children to 'be good' (or rewarding for 'being a good girl') is expecting too much of them. i think it's too vague and they need more direction, they don't really know what being good is yet. also, you want to reward her behaviour as she will eventually learn that the opposite of good is bad, which means that if she is not being good, she must be bad. you want her to grow up thinking that she is by her nature good, but that her behaviour can be both good and bad, that way you can condemn her behaviour without condemning HER.

O.M.G Laugs - are you me? I was in this section to post an almost identical thread to this! right down to living in a flat and being pg! Except DD is 2.9

I shall read with interest the suggestions so far, and keep on checking for more advice.

My DD pays NO attention when we say something now. She did, but now she does not, unless we yell, and then she cries. She is into everything, more so than she used to be, she runs of when she never used to, she misbehaves when she never used to. We have not up to now needed much 'discipline' as a simple command would be sufficient. And like you, I am pg - I am concerned we are not strict enough to date and have not set strong enough boundaries for when the new baby arrives (we have not felt it necessary until now to set those boundaries too strongly, regretting it a bit).

DD does not appear to aways deliberately act up, or not do as she is told, she just can't seem to help herself 'don't touch the computer screen please' 'k mama' two seconds later finger jabbing right in it, rinse and repeat.

Are 2 year olds just deaf do you think?

I just mentioned this thread to DH and we talked a little about our little one, and he said something really insightful!

I was saying when her behaviour appears to be deliberately willful (ie a tantrum, or when she has that 'look') we can deal with it better, but often her actions appear to be like she just cannot do what she is told.

DH said, that is when she is concentrating hard on what she is doing, she is so zoned into what she is doing (watching the computer screen, playing with buttons, playing with the camcorder) that she probably does find it physically difficult to pull herself out as although we are telling her not to do it, her mind is still there - how about that!

We have started trying, when this happens, ask her twice and then either remove her from the situation in question, or the object/situation from her with no further question.

But, like you, when it involves something like walking up the stairs, you can't do that.

I completely agree that children need boundaries, but it is harder to put them in place than to talk about them! I always knew how I would discipline my child before I had one! All changed now.

pavlov you might be me, we are on the same ante-natal thread too!

I know exactly what you mean about 2 yr olds being deaf. The other day we were walking back from nursery and chatting away. Then I happened to mention that I'd seen her push someone. I didn't tell her off, I just asked why she did it. Silence. Ok, so we went back to talking about other stuff. I brought it up a few minutes later and was met with complete silence again. She didn't look uncomfortable or anything but was just acting as if she didn't hear a word I said.

Really interesting to read all the suggestions. I'll admit I am rubbish at discipline. Up until now she has always been fairly well behaved so I haven't really felt the need to enforce it. She has the odd tantrum, but only when she's really tired.

We were saying the other day though that it feels like she rules the roost. Are all first borns like that? Maybe a sibling will do her good, but I'm also worrying that somehow she is playing up because I am pregnant (she doesn't know yet, but my mind is probably on other things more) and she's feeling hurt. Then again, it does just seem like she messes around on the stairs because it's fun.

Laugs My son is nearly 3, he has been using the stairs for a while now on his own. When I said 'on his own' I meant without me holding on, or making a fuss. I was always 2 steps infront. He just thought he was doing it all be himself.

Well I was armed with all your good advice as we got back in the flat, then she insisted on being carried up the stairs! I give up for today. I am too tired and have loads to do. We are going away this afternoon to my parents' house (where they have loads of stairs - eek!) so will tackle it on Monday when I am rejeuvenated.

Thanks all x

Laugs - we are the same!!!! I am finding reverse psychology is working today...

tea is ready
I am not hungry mama
well you need to eat
not hungry mama
Daddy and I are hungry
NOT HUNGRY MAMA!!
ok, well you don't have to eat, mama and daddy going to eat without you
No
Daddy, don't serve any for DD she is not hungry
I AM HUNGRY!!!!
Do you want tea?
YES PLEASE!!!

Then, eating, she wonders off with a carrot in her hand. Come back
No thank you
We have not finished
I have
Well then you need to leave the carrot
No
Pass it to me and go in the front room please
OK
[i want to watch tv]
No tv, it is tea time.
Silence.
Daddy, do you want DDs pasta, she is not hungry

My pasta!!!! And eats the lot!!!