Help me oh wise ones. How do I deal with this "It is too hard to not be naughty"

[SlightlyMadSimnelCake]

DTD1 gets herself worked up very easily - she quickly spirals in an argument...feels the world is against her...etc.

This afternoon she gave DTD2 a black eye by stamping/treading/making foot contact of some description with her eye. It can be diffiult to apportion blame though - as ever DTD2 apparently hit her first...it is just the scale of things (and often the arguments take on a physical aspect) that gets DTD1 in more trouble often.

Anyway. We had a chat etc. As part of this I mad the usual comment "why do you have to be naughty" at which she starts sobbing "it is too hard to be good" (made me feel actually). She was "sincere" - but I just on't know how to respond.

We talked about what things are good, what are naughty etc. so she understands right and wrong. I think that when she starts to get cross she just spirals and then "rebels" - pushing all the time against any form of discipline. We talked about taking time away from teh situation - to calm down. TBH though we have talked about this before and I have tried to help let her know that it is time out - but she treats this as a "your sending me to my bed" action. We have talked about the differences between her taking herself to her room for quiet time and being sent to her bed.

I think the fact that she is a twin also adds complexity. Of course DTD2 is acting loike goody goody two shoes and won't put a foot wrong ATM, so isn't needing discipline (or at least not to the same extent). This means that DTD1 is feeling victimised...exacerbating the whole situation.

I just don't knwo what to do.

She sounds impulsive rather then naughty. I'd be tempted to teach her some stop and think techniques, like a traffic light system, green card=all is well, orange= stop and think, red=stop right now.

how old is she?
I know you've talked to her about calming down time, but could yoiu perhaps try again but get her to make her own suggestions of what she could do in those situations?
another suggestion you could make yourself would be coming to find you and telling you what's going on so that you can help her deal with it?

i would try not to label her as naughty though, it'll just become a self-fulfilling prophecy otherwise. she knows you think she is naughty so she may as well live up to it iyswim?
i'd be telling her " i know you don't mean to do it, but we need to figure out some ways to help you calm down a bit" or something along those lines.
as you say, it can be difficult to apportion blame, but by being labelled the naughty one she is indirectly the one who is always in the wrong

Speaking as a twin, who's evil twin was rather good at doing the wind-up then stand back to let me get into trouble... How are you talking to DT2? If you think that she's setting situations up, it might be an idea to let her know you're on to her...?

TBH I think you are right about the fact that she isn't actually "naughty". She has aspects of her behaviour which are not acceptable - but, by and large she isn't aughty. e.g it is often really really little things which set her off - like not getting hte tea she wants, having to be asked 3+ times to do something. None of it is "naughty".

Can you tell me more about how you use the traffic lights in practice?

She is almost 8 BTW

When we were talking baout "caming down" she was actively discussing. Suggesting other things like counting to 10 etc. So we talked about using any of them/combining them...

It is also not just about her coming to us to help her deal with a situation with DTD2 (or others). She is like it with me...worse in fact as she puts up such a barrier and refuses to come down.

TBH I am not labelling her the naughty one. She is labelling herself as the one that "I don't like". I am even trying really hard to make a point of highlighting hte situations where I am disciplinging DTD2 so she knows it goes both ways. She still thinks "it never happens though".

I suspect that - if we were apprortioning blame for "triggering an argument" DTD2 would be equally responsible. I genuinely don't think that she is setting her up...but she is probably 50% responsible.

It's the same principle as the red card in football. Use a green card/light and tell her she's behaving really well, use an orange if she's getting OTT, use a red if she crosses the line. I'd ditch the naughty and comparing her to her sister. Do you ever watch Horrid Henry? He's not horrid but if he has everyone telling him that he is then it's a self for filling prophecy [sp?] IYSWIM. Look for the positive in her behaviour, if you see her playing nicely then tell her how well she's playing and how impressed you are. Don't compare her to her sister, they may be twins but they are not the same.

Fluffy Bunny - I am doing all of that.

The "you are always getting at me" is her perception. I am concscienciously do NOTHING to reinforce it. I am trying REALLY hard to discpline her apprpriately. Which because of the difference in behaviour means it is sometimes more severe for her. In fact today (because the black eye followed a 2 way arguement) they were both sent to there beds. And if there is ever any doubt about blame they both get discplined.

I also really pull out the stops to reinforce good behaviour...I realy do. It just doens't help when she starts to loose control of her emotions/temper.

Um, don't know if this happens, but if DT2 is telling DT1 that she, DT1, isn't loved as much or is the 'bad' one, then that's a strong impression for DT1 to be receiving, and not necessarily one that you can counteract quickly.

Twins can be shits to each other quite complex.

Watch Horrid Henry. It's an eye opener.

Does she feel got at because she doesn't see advice as advice but as a telling off? My son does this. You really do have to balance it out, tell her positive things (you're playing lovely/that was really kind of you to share your sweets etc). They do tend to forget all the positive things when they are told off so it's a good idea to say more positive things (if they have been earnt) then tellings off.

As far as I can see I don't think DTD2 is playing any games.

I think in the past we have agreed that she will take time out when she is getting angry. I have tried to advise her to talk time out (having agreed in advance I would help her decide that it is time for time out). And it DOES get constrewed as being punished. We have had another talk today about the difference between time out and punishment.

We just need to see how it goes

If she's impulsive then she'll see time out as a punishment rather then something to help her relax. She won't be able to differentiate the two and her impulsiveness will take over, it's really difficult to stop. A warning is probably a better idea, which is why the coloured cards may help as she'll be able to see that she's going over the line. It's easier to tackle one problem at a time as it cn get confusing. Don't just leave anything that's a real problem though. If the biggest problem is her fighting with her sister then her sister needs to be involved in this and not push her buttons. It takes two.

The bigger problem to be perfectly honest is her fighting with me (prob 75% of the time ). it just so happens that todays example was with her sister.

Physical or verbal? (with you)

Both.Starts with verbal eventually (and not always) prgressing to attempts at physcial.

What do you do? Do you shout? Do you do nothing? Run through an average one with me, what do you say to her? What do you do? What does she say and do? What are the triggers?