My 4yo DD is driving me insane!!

[threetinytots]

This has probably been done a hundred times before but I really am completely at a loss as to how to get through to DD. If I ask her to do anything, she completely ignores me and carries on with what she is doing. I have tried everything - I ask nicely, get her full attention before asking her, she wanders off and does something else! I then drop the nice and introduce a consequence if she cannot do as she's told(ie, no baking, painting, toy taken away,etc). This makes no difference whatsoever. I have done everything I can think of to try and get through to her but she never listens to me. It's just not instructions she cannot follow, yesterday she asked to go to see the little girl who lives next door. I explained that she couldn't see her as she was poorly. This led to her repeating the question again, for which I gave the same reply. She then starts with the "but I just want to tell her something", after about seven repititions of this, I am starting to get a bit weary, frustrated and angry. I did start to shout and gave up explaining anymore and just told her "No, you cannot go to see X". She completely ignored me again and went out in the garden and started knocking on the neighbours window.

Everything I tell/ask of her ends up like this. Ignoring everything I've told her, repeating herself again and again, taking no notice of any threat given(and they do get carried out - lots of her toys have gone to the charity shop) and her doing exactly as she pleases.

I went to get petrol today and she wanted to get out to go to the shop. I said no. Cue "but, I want to get out" several times and me saying NO. After me not giving her the answer she wants she took her seatbelt off herself and got out the car!

I am completely at my wits end with her behaviour and at present I hate myself because I really don't like her very much. Everything is such a major battle. Sorry if this is long, but if anyone has any advice to offer I will be eternally grateful.

Sounds very frustrating.

Have you come across a book called How To Talk So Kids Listen and Listen So Kids Talk? I think some of the strategies in there might well be helpful for you - there's lots of really useful ideas about how to rephrase things to get children to pay attention. I use it a lot with dd and am always impressed at the results.

It's a bit tricky to explain in detail, but if for example she says "I want to go and see x", instead of saying "you can't, she's poorly", you'd say "I know you'd really like to go and see x and it must be very frustrating for you that you can't go because she's not well". Validating her feelings. I think "no" is more or less forbidden.

That's not a very good summary, sorry - I think there are several threads in the archives giving better summaries of the book, but it really is worth a look.

3tinytots when did my dd1 move in with you then as she is exactly the same, I know alot of hers is boredom because she isnt at school until September (shes a September baby so will be starting school literally on her 5th birthday)

She goes to preschool and is apparently a 'dream' there as does what shes told, helps others, polite etc then comes home and seems to turn into a stroppy teenager. We tried the pasta jar idea (found on MN) and it has been working 90% of the time (the other 10% is when she is having a meltdown and tbh there is no stopping her them she can moan/whinge/tantrum for hours and nothing will get her to be quiet!!)

thanks snickersnack, that sounds good. I will go and look for the book. I always feel I should be more positive with her and try and redirect her to something she can do but I'm not always very good at it, and she is not always responsive. I did it at the garage today when I went to strap her back in the car(lots of screaming). I asked if she wanted to get out and she said yes. I said she couldn't get out here, but when we got to school she could get out and wait at the gates with me.

The thing is, how do I implement that when she is doing something that is dangerous or harmful? She quite often picks up her little sister (usually around the neck)and carries her around, when she knows(or at least I think she does) not to do it. How do I avoid using no?

She can be such a sweet, lovely girl.

Oh god eandh, we have the same daughter!!! Is yours ginger too? She is a Jan baby and DS and all her friends went to school last year and she found it very hard that she wasn't going as well. I'm sure some of hers is boredom too - she is quite bright. I do lots of stuff with her at home whenever possible but I can't solely entertain her as I have two other children as well.

She is an angel at preschool, as soon as I pick her up it starts. The garage incident today was straight after preschool.

What is the pasta jar?

lol at the stroppy teenager! I have said that about her sooo many times. I am starting to worry what she will be like at 14 when she's this bad at 4!

No not ginger (pics on profile!!) she is dd1 and my problem is that my laid back/chilled out dd2 (who is 2) is starting to copy her big sister (although gives up tanrumming after 10mins as shes realised it doesnt get her anwhere)

Pasta jar is a small jar and whenever she is good through the day she earns pieces of pasta and when she is naught she loses pieces when she gets to a set amount she gets a reward (first thing was a magnetic skeleton book which she had to earn 20 pieces of pasta - took a week as she kept losing pieces but she got there in the end) current thing is 25 pieces of pasta and daddy will take her swimming minus dd2 some days she'll earn 5 pieces and lose 1 otherdays shes lucky to earn 1 piece but she is gradually getting the idea

Sorry, eandh, just looked at your pics - your girls are beautiful.

Pasta jar sounds good. I will try it with her tomorrow.

I have a v laid back DS and I've never had to deal with any conflict from him. DD1 has been challenging since she was around 18m, and I have the same problem as you that DD2(18m) is now starting to copy her behaviour.

Its a nitemare isnt it especially when it appears all my friends that have dc the same age dont have half teh issues we have (they tantrum etc but go to their room/time out etc and they comply dd1 thinks time ou/naughty step is a challenge to see how far she can push it and is totally unbothered about being sent to her room in fact the only thing that works is threatening to tell Grandad (my dad) as he is her idol and she does anything he asks her to do

excuse typing dd2 is laying in my bed with me as she has a water infection and thrush so feeling very sorry for herself and clinging to me even though shes asleep

Your poor little dd2 . Mine also is not bothered by sitting on the naughty step - she sits and plays! I have yet to find anything that really works for her. She isn't bothered about her toys, ballet lessons, books, tv - what else is there? I don't know anyone else who has a girl with this kind of behaviour - all the badly behaved ones are boys!

At least she has gone to bed tonight without too much fuss, albeit in my bed!

Thanks for listening - it really helps to know I'm not alone in my frustration!

Wow my DD1 has clones I'm glad I'm not alone.

lol, samson, join the club.

aaaarghh you have the nitemare bed time routine too - dd1 has got better lately but we have often spent an hour putting her back in bed because shes's not tired/hungry/thirsty/wants one more kiss etc. Now she goes up at 6.45 by the time we've done teeth/toilet/story its 7ish and then shes allowed a story cd on that seems to be working. Thank God shes stopped waking up so early (shes always been a 5-6am riser regardless of what time shes gone to bed although dd2 is now my 6am riser!!) in fact most mornings dd1 sleeps till 7-7.30 (any earlier and I know we are in for a crap day)

Are you hoping school will make a difference to her behaviour, I am hoping that because she'll be doing more stuff then she wont be so bored/argumentative. We got our 2nd choice of school for her and actually have decided its much better than our 1st choice as the school shes going to has 3 classes per year and the original school we chose only takes 30. I think she'll enjoy having lots of different children to play with and this school shes going to is known to be quite strict on behaviour/uniform/manners etc and this will be fanbtastic for dd1 as she needs be be kept in line iykwim (can get a bit over excited otherwise)

Yes, once she's in actually in bed she's fine. She is taking a drawing board to bed at the moment and I'm finding that has relieved the constant getting up for various reasons. My DS is my only early waker, but he is such an angel he will just get up and either watch tv or play.

I can't wait until she goes to school! I am really hoping that it will make a difference to her behaviour in a good way and not exacerbate it so she's even worse at home. She is going to our local village school. There will be 3 reception children starting in September, so I am hoping that she will be doing more things with Y1 as she loves reading and writing. I'm sure she will be much happier when she's at school and feels part of the "crowd" again. Both our neighbours children and her brother all went to school last year, along with most of her playgroup friends and she was so angry that she couldn't go as well. It is very hard to try and explain to a headstrong 3yo(at the time) why she can't go to school.

Its a good day today, we have been baking and are currently at the playdough. How's yours?

Well we had dd1 preschool Eatser fayre thing today (I am chairperson so end up getting over involved!) she had a fab hat but didnt win (we had the 'its the taking part not winnig' chat this morning) she was really good but muttered to me about the Vicar (who was judging) having bad taste in hates

Although I have been counting all the funds we have raised (almost £800 this month from a sponsored event and today so double ) and her and dd2 decided to take all my beautiful roses from the vase, dehead them and use the water in the vase in their tea set so they are bith in my bad books at the moment and are upstairs (although I can hear dd1 telling dd2 that 'it's fine we'll be allowed down soon '

We popped into her primary school and dropped her acceptance letter off and she was fascinated by the place and cannot wait to get there!

sorry, eandh, but I lol at them deheading your roses! I would be though.

Well done on your fundraising, that's fantastic! Also good that she was impressed with the school - roll on September! I really feel for your dd having a September birthday - the system seems so unfair for those that just miss the cut off and are entirely ready to go to school. My nieghbour's dd has a end of August birthday and went to school last september, not in any way ready.

Left dd1 screaming at preschool this morning. Might have been something to do with the fact that she didn't go to sleep until 10.30pm

Can I join your club too!! Have DD - nearly 4, same wilfulness and lots of meltdowns. Frequently leave pre-school in ful meltdown as we have to walk past BIG school's adventure playground and she wants to play on it even though school kids are all over it. Tiring isn't it.

welcome to our club, wishiwasinbarbados. (wish I was too!)

Feel free to moan, whinge, cry, meltdown, tantrum about your dd's behaviour here as much as they do!

I had a positive parenting moment at bedtime today that worked!
DD - "I'm not tired, I don't need to go to bed, I'm not rubbing my eyes - see? I don't won't to go to bed yet, can I have two more minutes with you?(and on and on...)"
ME - "I understand you don't feel tired right now, but how about you take your drawing board up to bed and then you can draw mummy some nice pictures until you feel sleepy?" And off she went!

It is draining. My dd1's behaviour takes up so much of my time some days that at bedtime I have realised I hadn't even asked my ds what he did at school. Makes me and

Yeah. I have difficulty GETTING ds to school on time because dd wont get any clothes on. I find also that ds notices that I have different expectations of each child. "DD doesn't have to do that - why do I?" fair comment really . Oddly enough, bedtime isn't normally an issue with her. I think she is so knackered from shouting and crying during the day she is ready for bed.

Well done on the positive parenting!! Have a gold star!! Or a drink!!

ooooo must try that idea next time shes kicking off at bedtime, last night she went to bed fine (I work on a friday so normally a trickier day to get her to bed as shes hasnt seen us all day) and it was all quiet so I was feeling smug then I looked in her room at 9pm and shes still wide awake (playing with barbie and prince dolls ) am hoping she lays in today, dd2 had me up at 5.30 so we're snuggled on the sofa together.

I have promised dd1 that if she behaves all day today then she can stay up a little later withme tonight (dh off out for the evening) and maybe we'd order takeaway to eat after dd2 asleep, shes also very excited as dh best mate (both the dd's godfather) is crashing here tonight (be fun stopping them waking him in the morning but he has a 5 & 6 year old so knows what it is like)

wishiwasinbarbados welcome to the club, seems rather exclusive at the moment there haS to be more 'challenging' 4 year old girls than just ours

Some bad news here. My DD is 4, is exactly how you describe above but is a may baby so has been in schol full time since september. Therefore school seems to make no difference.

I find DD much harder work when 2yr old ds is about. On her own she will generally respond and listen but if theres 2 of them they seem to bounce off each other, creating havoc and generally not listening to a word I say.
I also get the ' but i' to anything I ask her. She seems to like negotiating everything. Ie
me 'come on its time to get dressed now'
dd ' I dont want to I want to watch tv'
Me ' get dressed now please or youll be late for school'
dd ' well what if i watch tv and then get dressed'
me ' you cant because I need you dressed now so that I can do your hair etc'
dd' but I just want to play with this first'
etc etc
I'm sure shes going to be a politician because her avoiding the subject skills are very good

On a plus side she does go to bed very well. Mianly because I just leave her to it. We have a bath, milk and chalie and lola and then its up to bed at 8pm for a story and cuddles. If shes not tired she is allowed to stay in bed and write, read etc until she feels tired, as long as she does not mess about or come downstairs. Generally after about 5 mins she turns her light out and goes to sleep. Sometimes shell say shes tired and go straight to sleep. I dont know if this works so well because she feels as if she has independence and we arent nagging her to go to sleep etc.

wishiwasinbarbados, many a time have I waited by the back door to go to school with ds and dd2, while dd1 strops about clothes and insists on going out in nowt but wellies

eandh, hope your late friday night went well, and your weekend! DD1 had ballet yesterday morning and it was watching week. I was a bit wary as I can never tell how she is going to behave in front of an audience, but for the first 15 mins she was an angel and followed the class perfectly. For the rest of the class, however, she had a major strop and stood in the middle with her fingers in her mouth, while 10 other lovely, well-behaved little girls danced around her. I was one embarrassed mummy! To top it all off, her headband fell off and she put it back on herself - rambo style! Oh dear.

kbaby, you have dashed all of our hopes of school solving our dd's behavioural problems . That conversation could have been near enough word for word my dd1. I recognised it so much! The "but" drives me crazy! Oh, and the avoiding the subject is my dd down to a tee too! God help us if they all turn out to be politicians

Oh dear. now we've lost dd's special calming down / bedtime toy. We have 2 and they are both lost in the house somewhere. Took her 2 hours to collapse to sleep tonight. Am dreading tonight when she wakes and can't find toy in the night. Also, it's her calming down toy too (when she's not flinging it across the room in rage). Have turned the house upside down twice.

DD had a strop in her ballet class last week too!! Teacher handled it very well I thought. I've given up being embarrased now and just sigh. Some of the looks people give you though!! One day I'll just ask them to handle dd and walk off! (I wouldn't actually walk off of course, just in case a social worker is reading this!). Sorry, rant over now.

hiya - can I join in this thread too please?! i have just turned 4 yr old twin daughters. One of which is a near angel and the other is a fiesty, wilful, independent little madam most of the time (but i do love her!!) ;)

to be honest, this week with no pre-school i have been struggling especially as i'm not used to having them on my own much anymore (have gone back to uni).
She constantly fights with her sister and is mean to her and has recently started hitting her and sometimes when she doesn't get her own way hits me and my husband too (immediately taken for time out in her room if she hits anyone).
I just don't know what to do with her, she never listens, I find myself constantly saying no and getting wound up with her all the time which i feel really sad and annoyed about!
HELP!!