Nursery suddenly deciding child's behaviour is problem?

[Triggles]

22yo DD came to us, upset, after speaking to her DS's (our grandson's) nursery this morning. He is 3, and in nursery 3 days per week.

We pick up her DS in the evenings due to her work schedule, and yesterday the nursery manager stated that DS had been rather aggressive during the day, had hit a couple kids, and was shouting a lot. Normally, the only thing they mention to us is potty training, as he is doing that, but they've never indicated any behaviour issues. When he first (last year)started he bit a few kids, and they discussed it with us then, so it's not like they wouldn't mention it to us if there were other problems.

Anyway, this morning, the manager told DD that she wants someone that is a specialist in communication (?) to come in and observe him. The manager told DD that this behaviour has been building for a number of weeks. But this is absolutely the first we've (DD included) heard of it from the nursery. They always say "oh he's had a good day" or are all chatty with him and us when we go to pick him up. Same with when DD drops him off in morning, no mention of problems. They've also mentioned he likes to roar like a dinosaur sometimes (he's 3!! he likes dinosaurs!).

This just puzzles us completely. Shouldn't this have been mentioned weeks ago, if this started weeks ago? And what exactly is this communication person supposed to do?

How is his speech? Is he frustrated because he has a lot to communicate now he's older, and people aren't understanding?

Actually, his speech is excellent. He chatters up a storm, and he is really clear about what he wants and what he doesn't. Even the nursery staff have commented on how well he speaks.

I am confused as to why they wouldn't mention an issue if this was building up for the last couple weeks, as the manager stated. Not once has it been mentioned before!

DD has told the director that she doesn't want the communication person in yet. I think she is concerned he will be labeled as a "problem child" and is insisting that the nursery work with her initially to see how often this happens and what triggers this behaviour they say is occurring. We don't see it at home (they live with us), just normal 3yo boy behaviour.

Perhaps your dd needs to sit down with them and discuss the concerns. Maybe some will ring true at home too but if he is her first she may not realise his behaviour is out of synch with his peers. Try not to view this as a negative thing . He is only 3 but if there is something underlying this it can be helped more successfully the earlier they accept advice. If they don't always see your dd at drop off/pick up then it may have been the soonest opportunity for them to mention it without it being overly rushed.

I wouldn't have thought that the Nursery staff would have an agenda eg labelling him a problem child. If they have noticed a slow burning problem then surely you would want that to be investigated? I think, even though it is difficult, you should try to take some of the emotion out of your response to this situation as an objective professional will be able to quickly identify if there is a real problem here or not. If there is then early intervention may be a really good thing. If there isn't then you can lay your mind to rest. There is obviously something going on for them to have mentioned it so try to see it as a potential problem being nipped in the bud.

I do think that the Nursery have been a little lax if there has been a significant decline in his behaviour over the past couple of weeks but it is good they are being proactive.

Good luck.

I think you're right that they should have mentioned this long before if it is such an issue. Maybe it's just that it's the first time the manager has become aware of it?

Either way the need to look at their own communication with parents!

I would do the same as your dd at this stage - they need to explain to her clearly what they're concerned about and work with her first.

However, she should then agree to the extra support if there is a continuing problem because it would hopefully be nipped in the bud before he starts school.

I don't blame you for being a bit miffed if this is the first you/your DD has heard of this. I would ask for a proper meeting with the nursery to discuss all concerns and find out what exactly the issues are.

Are the positive side, don't be frightened of observation/intervention from outside of the nursery. As long as parents are kept fully informed, it can (and usually is) a good thing. Far better to identify any concerns now before he starts school.

Try not to worry. Just make sure the nursery know that you/your DD are expecting to be kept fully informed of all developments.

on the positive side...(sorry!)

I would understand fully if they had been saying off and on over the last few weeks that he has been acting up. But all we've heard is that he's had a good day, been a good kid, and such. And they have no issue discussing everything with us, in fact sometimes they bring it up to us first as they see us at the end of the day. But no mention of it at all. DH picked him up yesterday and said they seemed quite frustrated with him, which is highly unusual. A few weeks ago, he kicked up a fuss when I went in to pick him up as he wanted to play outside first and they acted surprised at him acting up, saying he never behaved like that before! (it was a normal 3yo "I don't want to leave yet" kind of thing - and he hasn't done it since)

They see DD every single morning when she drops him off, 3 days per week, and the manager is there pretty much every time. So plenty of opportunity to say if a problem.

Personally, I think they are not taking the time to look at the behaviour or the cause and are just reacting. There was a slight blip with this the first week or two when he started at age 2.5yrs as he wasn't great with sharing. They were freaking out over how to make him understand sharing when we went to pick him up, so I pointed out (in exasperation I will admit) that at 2.5, he is still learning about sharing and that he DID understand "taking turns", to which they replied "oh really? that might help". Ya think??

I do agree that outside intervention is not necessarily a bad idea. But we get good feedback about him daily, never a mention of a problem, from manager or specific carers in the nursery.

Obviously it has to be DD's decision, not ours. I would have preferred, if as they say it is an ongoing problem, they asked her to come in to speak with them on her day off, as opposed to hitting her with this on her way to work. They know we live just down the street, so it's not a problem for her to come in on her day off.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what develops from here.

Agree that the nursery could work a bit on its communication. However a friend's son also was very interested in dinosaurs and would pretend to be one at this age and unwittingly it was quite frightening for other children and could seem quite aggressive too.

I'd go along with what the nursery suggest but find out a lot more information about what this person/observer would be doing.

Good luck!

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Thank you Pitchounette - that is a very good suggestion as well. I will mention it to DD, as she would need to be the one that spends the half day there, not us.

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Can I just say from someone who has had a behaviour specialist go in and observe their child - it was the best thing we ever did.

It brought to light things that were going on in the class that the teacher was completely unaware of and between the head, specialist, DH and myself have worked together to bring DS through the awful time he had.

I've pointed out to DD that it might not be the bad thing she thinks it will be, but ultimately he's her child, and it has to be her decision. I am going to suggest that she meet with the manager and gets more info from her, including when this happens generally, what the situation is, and when specifically this started. I will also suggest that she ask to be present for part of a day so they can point out the behaviours that they now say are a problem, so she can see for herself what is going on.

All I would say is if the parent is present during some of the nursery day then I don't think they will get the fully painted picture. Children imo act differently if mummy or daddy are there.

When the behaviour support teacher went into my sons classroom, it was explained to the class that this lady had come to look around, speak to teachers etc etc and for them just to get on with their work as they would normally.

My son had no idea that she was there to see him and still does not know now and he is 9. He is Yr4 and this happened in Yr1.

It did not help that this particular teacher did not like square children - she only had round holes if that makes sense. He is and always has been a bright boy, lively and a free spirit. Now the Yr2 teacher he had was just fabulous and said to me it was a pleasure to teach such a child.

My son got labelled before DH and I asked for this lady to go in, I think it is in dd's favour that the Nursery have suggested it. I am not so sure our school would have suggested it to us, I have a friend who works for the LEA and it was on her recommendation that I brought it up with the Head. I was so fed up of being called to the classroom door to say DS2 has fidgetted all day - can you ask him not to, he has done this, he has done that, we may have to send him home at lunchtime because we are shortstaffed and the dinner ladies cannot cope with him so I urge you to speak to your DD and say it is best to do it now and get plans put in place for the behaviour to be managed. Btw - it turns out they were new dinner ladies and were being very over zealous with what was going on - just high spirited behaviour - not naughty.

It highlighted a lot of things, many of which were not ds's fault - but he was being set up by his peers because previously, he had been told off so many times that when they blamed him, he stood up and took the punishment - to him what was one more?

Good luck.

oh and I forgot to say the behaviour specialist will watch your grandson in different scenarios. ie. playtime outside, in storytime when they should all be sat down together, when playing with others.

They will look at what goes on before such behaviour happens and afterwards - the consquences to your grandson and others.

I can see this is going to take some discussion with them. When we went to pick up DGS this evening, we asked how he had done today. The manager just sighed, said "a little less aggressive than yesterday" and wouldn't be more specific when asked. Not very helpful in terms of addressing the problem.

I don't think you should focus on whether or not they should have said something earlier or not.

For your grandson, that is neither here nor there and tbh a few weeks is not a long time at all; sensible IMO to observe for a few weeks to ensure it IS a pattern of behaviour.

After all, if they'd mentioned it the first week you'd probably have been up in arms "he's only had a bad couple of days and they're talking behaviour problems!"

I would just say to pass on to your daughter, from someone who has been in a similar position, to not let a knee-jerk reaction of feeling that her child is being criticised or labelled, make her put barriers up to her child actually getting some help they might need.

Lots and lots and lots of young children need extra help or assessment. Settings are better at identifying and helping now. It does not mean anything negative at all. She needs to really think about her son and be open to any possible needs he might have, rather than closing her mind to it because it's a bit upsetting. Which it is. I've been there.

But part of the problem here IS their communication. Apparently, they said his behaviour of hitting has been "brewing" for a few weeks - but that he hasn't hit anyone until yesterday. When she asked what they meant by "brewing", they wouldn't elaborate at all. They really haven't been monitoring, or giving her or us any feedback at all.

I have no problem with him possibly needing extra help or assessment. I do, however, expect them to have specific ideas why they are asking for that extra help so we have some idea what is going on instead of vague comments without elaborating at all when we ask for more information.

ask for a meeting then. It is a shame they're not being more communicative but I've found with school as well, that they are more keen to give little sound-bites of info rather than arrange meetings, which of course take up time and involve a bit of preparation, so I think it will be up to you (or your dd) to make them sit down with you and explain.

If your grandson is going to school in September then the nursery may feel his behaviour needs looking at before he does start

I am sure the nyrsery will not have mentioned it, if his behaviour was normal.
You may have a different idea of normal than them.
You know your grandchild, but the nursery staff will have dealt with hundreds of children. Thye obviously need help managing his behaviour.
Children behave differently when at nursery, I know I work in one, and I have to deal with some little horrors that behave like little angels at home, apparently.
Being observed by an expert will do him no harm.

pmsl - oh he's not an angel - I have yet to meet a 3yo that actually behaves like an angel! But I have wondered if, because they go on and on about how intelligent he is and such on a regular basis, if they sometimes expect older behaviour from him than a normal 3yo. I know DD does sometimes. They (and she) almost act shocked when he acts his age.

Ah, well, it will all get sorted eventually I suppose.