lonely 10 year old is breaking my heart.

[wickerman]

Aaagh. My bloody lovely 10 year old dd is having a shit time at the moment. She has always been very popular and well liked but has never found her soul mate amongst the girls in her school and is now feeling that they are all forming into cliques and she doesn't belong anywhere. She says she feels she has to pretend to be someone else in order to fit in and she doesn't want to. there is no one she particularly wants to call up to come and play.
She has got good friends out of school but they live a long way away and we don't see them very often. I feel it's partly my fault as we are quite different from most people round here and I should have seen it coming.
Added to the general pain I feel for her is the fact that she has a history of OCD and therefore she really NEEDS good friends who understand her and aren't going to judge her. I am working a lot at the moment, and am separated from her dad, and we have had so much STUFF going on. What can I do to ease her pain?

could you look into any groups with like minded children clubs or support groups for young children to meet and have fun

not sure what you mean by your quite different from people

just look into what youth groups or young children clubs are around and she can meet new friends outside of school and maybe some from in school

Sometimes we all have to 'bend' ourselves to fit in, we often have to pretend that we like one thing or not like something else to be part of a group, it's no different for children and adults. There's things she can do outside school (brownies/guides/art groups etc) but inside school is more testing. There are few children at this age who will be able to understand her OCD, they do judge and alot have problems accepting others who are different to themselves. I have a book for my son called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship, it helps a child to look at their own behaviour and adapt it to fit in.

I don't mean to sound harsh but she does need to adapt or pretend to like the same things, it's how the playground works and these skills are necessary for her to learn in order to prepare her for adult life. How many times have you agreed with someone for an easy life?

She already does loads of stuff - is in the school football team, does music stuff out of school, dancing as well, trampolining. We couldn't really fit anything else in without her being overscheduled.

The difference thing. Well we live in a quite affluent area and everyone is very materialistic and quite conservative, and we have been described as hippies by some neighbours. I guess the culture might change if the current climate continues though.

I think it's also that at 10 there are lots of very mature girls who are obsessed with boys and fancying and how they look, and my dd is SO not there yet.

I'm certain things will change. As the economy falls to bits people can no longer afford to be materialistic but I still say she'll have to 'bend' a little. She will be moving to secondary school next year though, the friends we make at primary school we forget.

There's nothing wrong with the way you are, I do agree with you not wishing for her to mature too quickly. Is there no one at the clubs she could get to know?

x posted with you scrooged. Off to amazon to look at that book.

I agree with you up to a point about the playground. But I think being yourself is important too. Compromise is necessary of course, but she's saying she feels that she has NOTHING in common with ANYONE.I think that's because she's low at the moment and she's exaggerating, but it's really hard to see.

I don't think she has to give in completly, just show an awareness should be enough. It's a 50/50 thing, if she's on one half of the playround and they are all on the other then she's got to make an effort to meet them. They won't come to her, especially if she seems different. Children generally can be nasty if someone is different to them, this is why she needs to learn to fit in, even if it's just a bit. They are materialistic at this age, it was exaclty the same when I was at school (many years ago), if you didn't have the right bag/shoes/jumper then you would be ignored or your life would be hell. It doesn't change, people do as they get older. It's very sad IMO.

...........anyone else dealt with this?

Have not dealt with this myself, but am teacher at secondary school. This happens a lot with our year 7 children (11/12 yrs so only a bit older) and I just wanted to reassure you that they nearly always settle and find their friend/group/etc eventually. Maybe it's easier because there are more children to meet, wider range of kids etc, so if your daughter can hang in there hopefully when she moves school this will fall into place. I had a desperately unhappy girl last year saying the exact same thing as your daughter - especially the pretending part - and now she is so happy. It took time and a lot of getting to know lots of different people but eventually she "clicked" with three other girls. I suspect a lot feel the same as your daughter but not all articulate it - that might reassure her?

"I don't mean to sound harsh but she does need to adapt or pretend to like the same things, it's how the playground works and these skills are necessary for her to learn in order to prepare her for adult life. How many times have you agreed with someone for an easy life?"

UGH! What hideous advice! Any "friends" you make by faking who you are aren't worth tuppence!

Tell your DD that if she has been having trouble making friends in school then she should look elsewhere, and keep looking until she finds someone on her wavelength.

I think there's a difference between making nice with people in order to just get along, and finding someone to be a true friend to you. The latter are worth searching for, you should communicate this to your DD.

As Dr. Seuss says - "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

do I know you ? isn't dr seuss clever!

don't some people go through life without finding a friend who is a soul mate but have large groups of friends (know lots of people like this)?

I agree about not changing but there are some situations where you have to learn to be slightly more amenable than normal, just to get along with a group. Do you think she's struggling with that?

Also think the area you are in is v small and the children are incredibly stereotypical and as booboomum said, perhaps secondary school will offer her a different type of child to be friends with!

How many classes are in her school?

Would you rather the poor mite spent all day lonely and by herself Dizie? You are right, any friend you have to fake your personality for is not worth anything, however, it's a lonely world if you have no friends. The OP has said how sad her daughter is, sometimes you to have to change yourself to fit in. There's no shame in this, just as long as you remember who you are.

"sometimes you to have to change yourself to fit in. There's no shame in this, just as long as you remember who you are."

Listen to yourself...

DD "Mummy, I'm lonely, it seems like no-one really wants to be good friends with me."

DM "Well, honey, you just need to be more insincere and pretend to be someone you're not, then they'll like you. It's OK, as long as you remember that the persona you wear on a daily basis isn't really you. That's not even likely to create future psychological trauma or anything!"

It's not possible to change yourself and remember who you are. The behaviour shapes the personality sooner or later.

Gosh, what an awful world it would be if everyone believed what you believe. All these people faking who they in the name of conformity, not just being who they actually are! Personal integrity is worth more than fairweather friends, honestly it's no contest.

Yo ma foxxe, you ok? Big snogs to you. xxx

thank you dizietsma.

I like that Seuss quote. Which one is it from? I thought I had them all down.

I think me and my exish dh are slightly to blame. we have done a lot of audible complaining about the values set of the people around us. Partly because we find it difficult too. We are now going to stop this.

And I'm finding it hard because this was me as a kid, out of kilter with the world around me, and I DID compromise, and bloody hell it took me ages to rediscover who I was.

I WANT her to keep her integrity, AND to find some friends who she can be totally herself with. And I don't think that should be too much to ask. When she goes up to high school it all gets a bit more mixed up and a bit less uber middle class, and maybe that will help.

I'm not too sure what your school life was like but I was in your daughters shoes. The others in both my primary and secondary school were materialistic, I wasn't so I didn't fit in. There were many, many years of me not having the right trainers etc, I had few friends because I didn't have the same things etc. It's good if you escaped all this, not every child can do this though. You do often have to make the most of a bad situation, IMO, anything that makes you different makes you stand out and not i a positive way. If your daughter needs to blend in for an easier life at school then support her in this. Life's really not nice if you don't fit in. In a school environment, integrity means nothing. It's far worse in high school by the way.

Wickerman

I had a friend who was like your daughter in school. She was known as a 'hippie' too. She so wasnt but her mum n dad were a little 'odd' if you didnt actually get to meet them. I was 7 when I met her and I am still friends with her know and were 21.
We were never best friends, as she had other friends and so did I but there were loads of girls in school that used to think she was wierd because she liked to make her own clothes and wear bright colours. When (like me) you actually get to meet the whole family - they are not so 'odd' as you think.
(though I thought having thomas the tank engine ham, when 15yrs old was a bit strange- never the less it tasted good)

Her mum used to always tell her that she should never let anyone change who she is, that she is her mothers daughter and belongs to thier family, no one elses and that is just how thier family are.
All in all they were very decent people, and she is sooo happy now with her 'wierd' older boyfriend - but she found someone for her, someone who loved the family's 'hippiness'.

Keep instilling in your daughters life that she is who she is because thats how God made her (or whoever/whatever your family believe in).

I wish I was stronger at school and made friends with 'real' people as all I have now are 'fake' friends who dont give a dam about my life and just wanna talk about themselves.

Why dont you try some self help classes as such. Ones that will help her with her self confidence, and the ways in which she can aproach childrren, learn different ways to communicate etc...These tools will be alot more helpful in later life than those 'fake' people that will only speak to her when they want something.

I was like your daughter in school, the child of v leftie academic parents in horrible daily mailesque nouveau riche Cheshire village.

The kids ostracised me just as their parents did mine, my poor Dad ended up on anti-depressants, he was the local vicar (even more stigmatising!) and these people were hardly christian.

I really don't agree with scrooged, be true to yourself and you will meet like minded people although the school years can be v v tough. As it happened I met my "proper" friends at 6th from college, people from more diverse backgrounds with less small minded values.

I live in a city now with lots of vibrance and diversity, these experiences I hope have made me more tolerant, open minded and accepting of difference. I have an abhorrenceof small towns and small town mentalities!

It's so hard when your dd is going through it but there's aworld of difference between being more friendly and chatty which might help to pretending to be someone else which will ultimately undermine her self-esteem even more IMO.

You don't have to agree. Everyone handles things differently. I did what I thought was right at the time, I did stay true to myself but this didn't work. I didn't have the confidence to be me so this probably had alot to do with it aswell.

Dear Wickerman
I agree with Dizie and all the other Dr Zeus enthusiasts. The most important thing to instill in your daughter is for her to Be Herself. My LO is only 3 so we're not there yet with him, but as an aging hippie living in a small house in the stockbroker belt I know from my own NCT experience what its like to sit with a group of people and think that their concerns and interests are totally meaningless to me. However it's far easier for me as a 40 year old to know that it is no reflection on me but on how shallow they are. After a brief encounter with one of the banker dads today I must admit I've been wondering should we just up stakes to Mull or some other hippy enclave and just leave them all to their well deserved credit crunch!
Don't let yourself or your daughter become shallow just because everyone else is!

And also minx's post just reminded me...

Teach your little girl all you know about 'different' kinds/types of people.
e.g. ethnicity/religion/race/social backgrounds, as much as you can so that it gives her an insight to how other people live thier lives.

Teach her to be resilient and not fight back at children who call her names or if she sees it happen to others. Teach her about bullying and that its not acceptable in any given circumstance.

She may find that one day, If she sees a child being bullied/or herlself she can throw back a truthful/witty comment thats not hurtful as such and maybe then other children will see her kindness and follow her.

You should teach her not to 'bitch' as it can backfire. Also that she should always tell you or someone if she is upset about anything at school/an issue/or shes witnessed something bad.

The best thing, I think...

Is to teach your children, how to gain wisdom, understanding and best of all knowledge to equip them in life. Shes 10 and can understand the majority of adult. Dont ever think shes 'just a child' and should be treated like she 'wont' understand.

You seem a very caring parent, and you have noticed the changes in your daughter. Keep being that amazing parent in her life and 'listen' as you have been doing.

majority od adult talk is what I meant ...

of* more like...Ill get there eventually

Hello all

Thank you all for your comments. Minxofmancunia, that's almost exactly it. we are(ssshhhh) LEFTY ARTISTS - well writers/theatrical/musical types in an almost entirely banky/lawyery suburb.

Sometimes it appears that our value system is COMPLETELY diametrically opposed to those around us. eg - other day - non ironic comment from neighbour "good time to buy a second home atm, lots of repossessions around." ETC.

I have written to her teachers, because I think a lot of it is to do with her OCD and the fact that it makes her very other=centred and lose her identity a bit, which makes it harder for her to stand her ground. I think the holidays, in which we are going to an arty hippy commune with some arty hippy friends, will be nourishing to her.

If you could let me know which Dr Seuss book that brilliant quote comes from I am surely going to buy it.

Hi wickerman,

I read this thread yesterday and have been thinking about your daughter, so I thought I'd come back to it.

She sounds like a lovely girl and you a very caring mum.

I don't have experience of this from a parental point of view, but can remember the feeling of being a child when all the girls started pairing off into cliques. I was, on the face of it, a pretty normal child - although my parents were pretty hippyish, so were other people's, so this wasn't too big a deal. However, I still had those moments (still do, sometimes) of thinking I wasn't like everyone else. Like you say, girls of this age are desperate to sound grown up and if we were to listen to their conversations, in which 90% of the group will be faking maturity, it would probably be laughable - but to your DD it might feel like a big secret she doesn't get.

I think there are two things you can do to help.

One is, like others have said, to emphasise that it's ok to be yourself and not conform. There are loads of good role models in books and films, from Maggie in the Mill on the Floss (probably a bit too old for her) to Pippi Longstocking to Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls!

The other is, that there is some responsibility on you to show her that you can be quite unlike someone, yet still be good friends. You seem to have fallen into a trap of imagining all your neighbours as one homogenous mass, rather than individual people. They may appear to have opposing values, but scratch the surface and you'll no doubt find a group of parents who are as concerned about and in love with their children as you are - even if you have nothing else in common, this is a decent starting point. Some of my best friends are nothing like me. In fact, I think it is easier this way. There is no competition or envy in our relationship, because we are not even aiming in the same direction. I also find it interesting talking to people whose points of view are so different from mine. Others of my friends are actually quite like me, but I'd never have thought it from the way they dress, the jobs they do, the homes they live in etc. There are two elements here - to teach your daughter that each of those girls in her class is unique - they don't all think and feel alike, even if they claim to in order to fit it.

The other is that, to paraphrase High Fidelity, 'it's not what you like, but what you're like'. I think you can best demonstrate this by making some effort yourself to intigrate with other parents from the school/ on your street. It would be great for her to see that, without giving up anything of yourself, you can also get on with others who are so different to you. While the arty hippy commune holiday sounds like great fun, if you have time left, why not spend some time in the holidays in the local area? Perhaps you and DD could take a short course in something you're interested in together and try and meet some other families who live locally.

Sorry that was LONG!

thanks Laugs. that was very thoughtful and thought through. But I have to defend myself and say that I haven't imagined all our neighbours as one homogenous mass and I HAVE made immense efforts to integrate, socialise, fit in, blah blah. and I do have local mates who are nothing like me. I think I must have misrepresented myself as a snobbish separatist.I'm not. The irony is that when we first moved here I spent a YEAR basically settling the kids in, and making every effort to find like minded people, or just people.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you. I didn't think you sounded like a snob, but I do think kids put a lot of weight on what their parents say. I grew up in the south to one northern working-class parent and one Irish one. They were forever going on about how everyone was 'so English' or 'so southern', read: stuck up, unfriendly, cold, middle class etc. This did have an impact on me and I never quite felt like the town I lived for 18 years was 'home' (never seemed to effect my brother though). At 18 I moved north, only to find that to them I was just another southerner! It took me years though to realise that my parents were just bitching really, they were actually quite settled there and had loads of southern, English friends (as well as quite a few other 'exiles', happily living in the south). They've now lived there for 30 years.

Anyway... I wasn't saying anything against you, just trying to find ways that you can help your daughter. The hardest part is, it's probably something she mostly has to deal with herself, but if you can find ways to help that'd be good for both of you.

Has she been feeling any better this week? Did you hear back from the teachers? I also agree that she'll probably find it easier when she goes on to secondary school, as there will be children from different neighbourhoods. Is that this coming September or the following one?