I want to stop my son playing with one of his friends... how would you handle it?

[bergentulip]

Well, when I say 'friend', he's the neighbour, and he's significantly older than my 3.10yr (4 in May) old DS1.

As with a lot of 4yr olds, he's easily led and will play along with anyone that shows an interest. He gets on very well with a 6yr old neighbour, who is a lovely little boy and seems to be very patient with my DS. Very understanding, appreciates his age.

But, there is another neighbour, a little boy, who's 8/9yrs old. He and the 6yr old play together, and sometimes come and ask that my DS comes out too....

All fine. I like to encourage him to go out and play and have fun. I keep an eye on it. BUT, when the 8/9yr old is there, all games seem to revolve around fighting, or guns,.. I'm clearly not happy about.

I have made a decision that 4 is too young to be exposed to this and will try and restrict the time he spends with this neighbour.
But, how do I turn this other boy away without offending him. I know he's only 8, and who am I to say what is appropriate. I don't have any children that old yet, but I just don't want my much younger son getting the impression that it is acceptable to pretend to shoot people, or hit them, or shout 'I'm going to kill you' !!(!)

I don't think I am overreacting. The 8yr old really does seem quite aggressive, and I am led to believe he plays quite a lot of computer games meant for adults (18+ soldier/combat etc....)

How would you handle it? Am I being ridiculous???

put like that Hercules1, you make a very valid point.

However, a lot of the time I am there, which is why I know what is going on. I will be watching from the window, or have the door open, they might be in the bedroom, or in the garden, on in front of the house.... I think the issue has been sidetracked slightly about the 'playing out' bit. He's hardly unsupervised.

I see the 8yr old throwing sticks at cars, pretending to fight, he does not listen to me if I ask him not to throw heavy object next to other neighbours' cars etc....
No, I cannot hear what they are talking about all the time because I might not be in earshot of mumbled conversations, but it's quite clear when my 3yr old comes in saying 'I'm gonna kill you' in the middle of a tired temper tantrum a couple of hours later.

Is it just me that thinks this is not appropriate at ANY age, and that I am ever so slightly justified in being shocked at this kind of behaviour and language?

It is up to me to discipline my child and teach him right from wrong, and what is or is not an appropriate way to speak to people- show respect etc etc....

but still- to the question- is there no chance of tactfully reducing the amount of time he spends with a boy clearly too old for my son to be playing with?

(I still maintain it is important, even at nearly 4, for my son to be with his peers without feeling my watchful presence. Independance is important at that age too- whether perceived-now, or actual-when older!)

Someone else on here said that you can't protect your DCs from the real world, but I'm hellbent on trying to do just that for as long as I can. The more mature and emotionally literate we help our kids to become while we're still their main influence, the better they'll cope when they come across aggressive and violent kids when they're older. Because by then they'll know right from wrong from you, leading by example.

Saying that he's going to kill you is something you'd hear from a much older kid and just plain wrong coming from the mouth of a 3 yr old. I'm not sure if tactful really should come into it - being up front might be a better tactic. Talk to your son about what you see him doing with his friend and what you think about it-obviously in simple terms ('it's not nice that you say you want to kill me-it makes mummy feel very sad' etc). These thing take ages to undo and you might have to repeat it endlessly but he will get it eventually. After hanging our with this other kid I mentioned before our sons started saying 'go away man' and pushing us away with a hand in our faces and it was only through explaining again and again that it is rude, makes other people feel sad, etc every single time they did it that we eventually got them to stop. They no longer play with that child-I got so stressed having to sort out fights and stop them picking up horrible habits every time we met up that I just made a clean break. I feel much better for it.

It doesn't sound like your son is benefiting from his relationship with this older kid at all. And why is the 8 yr old hanging around with a 3 yr old anyway? He should get some mates his own age. Sounds like he could really benefit from some healthy adult feedback, but if you don't want to get too involved or think it's pointless to talk to him then I'd just back off-slowly or immediately. Your son will get over it and you can find new and gentle little people for him to play unsupervised with instead.

And no, the kind of behaviour you describe isn't appropriate - at any age.

My ds has a friend who is 3 years older than him. He's the little brother of one of dd's friends.

He has always been inclined to want to play fighting/shooting games and I don't like these for ds. I enlisted the older one as a helper "please can you help me by thinking up games that don't involve any killing but that ds will find exciting? He's too little to play your games really, but he does so love to play with you - and it's good for him to have a big boy to play with because that's how he'll learn to be a grown up" All that sort of guff. I really worked and they are still good friends now as 8 and 11.

Recommend that you read Killing Monsters Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence.

Superb book that explains the necessity of violent make believe play. Basically, kids see such play as empowering, do not attatch the same meaning to violence as adults, and because their lives are necessarily so disempowered it's a symbolic release from their daily frustrations.

I agree with you up to a point dizietsma - kids need outlets.
But it is equally true that being exposed to stuff that they are not emotionally ready for can really damage kids. One 4 yr old I know who is allowed to watch Batman the Movie and all sorts of superhero stuff is obsessed by these characters all day, every day, but he can't sleep with the light off and wakes up every night with nightmares. For me that one's a no brainer but his mum just doesn't seem to get that the stuff he is so enthralled by is also scaring him stiff. He's just not able to cope with the images and action being thrown at him and there's nobody there to act as a filter.

To me this particular 8 yr old sounds disturbed and angry, and like inappropriate company for someone as young as 3, especially as he won't respond to adult intervention.

My DS is 7, plays fighting games with his friends, watches cartoon violence on the TV (programmes aimed at his age group), and has toy weapons. He has done so since about Y1. He understands that he is only playing games. I don't have a problem with any of this and believe that this is normal boys play and has been for generations, my brother and I did this as kids.

I would not let him play computer games, nor watch more realistic films I don't think suitable for his age group (e.g. The Dark Knight, the last pirates of the carribbean), even though 'all his friends do'.

And although I think that his fighting games are perfectly suitable for a 7 year old I would most certainly not have let him play these sort of games at 3, nor play with another older child, however 'nice' he was, who played these games.

Some of the children in DS class do play games and watch films aimed at older children/adults and use language, have attitudes I would consider inappropriate for 7 and 8 year olds, and if they were my neighbours I would not want my DS, at 7, playing out with them, so I most certainly wouldnt let a 3 year old out playing them.

I think I'm saying that there is a fine line between 'normal' fighting games and aggression, but that at 3 years old, none of these are appropriate.

Thanks for all your thoughts all. I do think he is a lonely, angry little boy (the 8yr old), which is why I worry so much about how to stop them playing together.

I don't think speaking to him and asking him to think of better games for my 3yr old will work, he's just not receptive. Shame.
Also, am worried at the parents' reaction if they thought I was interfering, which they would, cos I would be.....

But, clearly inappropriate for my 3 / 4yr old to spend time with him, and it needs to be stopped until my DS is old enough to engage and understand these sorts of games.

I just know that when I say "I think [DS1] is a little bit young to play with you (and X) for the moment, he does not understand the more grown up games you play...." or something similar, that he is just going to stare at me with a sorrowful expression on his face and skulk off.

bergentulip, I wholeheartedly hope you read that book recommendation from dizies.

Also I recommend 'Raising boys' by Steve Biddulph

I really think it would be very valuable for you to do alot of research into boy's development and play.

I think there is a fine balance between holding your own views as a person about fighting, etc, and actually inhibiting the normal and healthy development of a child.

It wouldn't hurt to read around the subject, would it? As well as allowing yourself your own views.

slowreadingprogress, more than happy to read around the subject. I am always the first to be open to others' opinions. Even if I have given an impression to the contrary.

I don't want to inhibit the normal development of my children, of course not.

But, I do not want pretend guns, or fighting, kicking, hitting in our home, excessive aggressive shouting, etc.... fine line, like you say.

And, although this forum is very helpful and gives plenty of opposing and challenging views, none of those that respond have seen this other neighbour's behaviour or would appreciate that I am not being a complete neurotic nutcase with no understanding of child development.

I am not so sheltered that I do not know what sorts of games boys play amongst themselves. But this particular 8yr old boy goes beyond that in my opinion.

I think I'll leave it there. Taken everything on board. Will do some background reading, and have to work out a way forwards. What is sure is that I do not want my son to spend too much time with children 4yrs old than him - yet!