7 year constantly lies - help

[kaz33]

Hi, we are a normal middle class family - slightly chaotic, sometimes get it right, often get it wrong.

My 7 year old (yr 3) has always found the truth a bit difficult, never made a big thing out of it after all thought that he would grow out of it - peer pressure and maturity.

However, since starting at his new school it has started to become a real issue:

Today - went to pick him up from after school club, he produces a new book from his bag and says he got it from the travelling book fare. When questioned he says that his teacher gave him some money to buy book, I say that we are not leaving the school till he tells the truth. Whilst this is happening his teacher wanders past, explains the situation to her. She then questions him and he then lies saying that he misunderstood and thought if he gave teacher book voucher for £1 he gets book. I explain that this is not the truth and the voucher is in his bag. When questioned he bursts into tears. Tomorrow he is off to see the headmaster.

This is not the only or infact an isolated incident, just the most noteworthy as it involves theft.

I would go as far as he is a fanatist or a compulsive liar - he lies about things even when it is obvious that they are lies ie: I have been to America, and when pointed out that is not true as I would know he continues, telling lies to explain his initial lie.

He has other behavioural traits which are a concern but I am interested in peoples thoughts on kids that lie. Please be brutal as I really want to get a handle on this

OMG kaz33 - at leat you are addressing the issues head-on. I had a DD who was a liar and a thief, and shameless with it. She had to see the Head on a regular basis. Nothing did any good with my DD, I tried and tried, therapy, child psychologists, psychiatrists etc but to no avail. My DD also used to say ridiculous stuff - like we have all been hang-gliding at the weekend or we went to America. (Why America?).
It all ended very badly - DD never stopped lying and stealing.
I hope you are able to tackle this better than I was able to.

I haeve a lier too so will watch with interest.

I have tried teh boy who cried wolf story - which worked for a couple of weeks - but now we are back to lying.

Sorry no advice so bump for you

But is he hanging about with someone who he thinks he needs to compete with

I would say that the intent was not there in your example and it sounds more like a genuine confusion over the book token - they do say you can buy a book with it!

I think it is just important to correct these 'mistakes' and would not go so far as to say he is 'lying' deliberately.

Certainly it is worse when he is stressed. The interesting thing is that when I told DH he went very quiet and basically admitted that was him when he was a kid - he said that if no-one corrected his lies he started to believe them and gradually didn't know what the truth was .

He is also being gently bullied by one of the biggest kids who used to be his friend of sorts. Its a sort of when ever he sees him he hits him or says something nasty.

He has aspergers tendencies so really is all over the place.

Today I feel very sad again as I really don't want him in the school - I feel like i can't do anything to protect him. It is a great school which really tries to teach children personal responsibility and emphasises a positive learning environment.

kaz I wonder if its worth separating out different sorts of untruths from children (sorry, this post might be a bit long):

1. misunderstandings about how the world works, especially if they are then embarassed about getting it wrong and try to cover up the fact that they misunderstood (maybe the case with your ds & the book token?)

2. lies that have a direct personal benefit (eg 'he hit me first!')

3. fantasies (like 'I've been to America)

so for example my dd has a friend (age 8) who will tell you all about the rabbit under her bed. If you said 'you don't really have a rabbit' she would insist that she did. Maybe the best way to look at it is that she does have a rabbit, it's just imaginary. Similarly, my dd (age 6) would tell you totally sincerely that she comes to school on a shetland pony. She doesn't expect you to believe her as such (if you were in the bike shed, she'd ask you to stroke the handlebars of her 'pony'), but it is real, in a way, to her.

I personally wouldn't worry about fantasies, I think that other children will laugh them away as they get older, in fact maybe even going along with them is better (what's it like in America, where did you go?).

Have you ever read any of A S Neil's writing - he talks quite a bit about children's fantasies in a book I have about Summerhill school, and you might find it helpful.

He was often dealing with children who fantasised because they were unloved or unwanted (clearly not the same with your ds, or my dd's friend with the rabbit!) but his strategy was very much the same, not to see it as a lie, but just to run along with the fantasy until the child didn't need it any more.

I'm no expert but there are helpful sections on lying in "Beyond Toddlerdom" by Christopher Green and in "Raising Happy Children" by Parker and Stimpson.

In summary they say:

1. Before age of 8 tend to be very transparent about their lies but by 10 they are more subtle and guarded. Therefore, in the early years encourage them to be as open as poss and make sure that honesty pays off. There must be less punishment for owning up than denying fault.

1. Set an example yourself (unfair to expect dc to be more truthful than parents they live with - and let's face it - will all lie at some point)

1. Make allowances for active imagination and fantasy life of a child and their literalism (ie I didn't run in the car park - I hopped)

1. Be clear that telling the truth is important and without being too heavy, let them know you are lying posssibly through use of humour (ie "Oh I wish my carpet would fly too, or I can see your nose growing" etc)