How to deal with a 19 month old hitting the newborn

[SomeMightSay]

I also have a thread on the go about the naughty step but would also like a wider range of advice and experience, I hope the title of this one draws in some other ideas too.

The thread title says it all really, ds1 is hitting, kicking, and sometimes throwing things at the baby (4 weeks old), I know this is normal behaviour and know that ds1 must feel so angry/frustrated and feel like he's being pushed out.
I'm trying my best to make sure he still gets enough attention, but it is so hard! I give him hugs and kisses after I've fed baby, and we still play together as much as possible, and tbh, I think now I'm making more of an effort with him, but we are both at our wits end with this I think.
He needs to learn that he cannot behave like this, but I don't know how best to do it wothout making him feel like he's being rejected.
Please help....

Can you get out of the house? DS1 is far, far better at playgroups or other activities where he can go off and do his own thing while I cuddle the baby. Even the park in the freezing cold is better than being stuck indoors!

Also, do you have a set routine, i.e. out of the house by 10 or whatever? Hard with a newborn, but again it really helped us. DS2 now 8 weeks and DS1 far more settled now he knows what is happening when.

Hi Effie Yes, we do have a slight routine. I will have to look into M&B groups for ds1, but I mostly have to be 'available' for him, he is very active, runs off the minute you put him down, and within a second will be halfway up a climbing frame, so for safety's sake if we're out and I'm feeding baby, ds1 is strapped into pushchair which he hates, but at least he's safe!

Atm, we pop to shops for that days lunch and dinner at about 10, home for 10:30/11, tv on while I feed baby at 11/11:30, ds1 has luch at 12, naps til 2:30, baby feeding again at 2:30/3, done by 3:30. Would ideally like to get out a bit more in the afternoon but depends what's for dinner as that has to be done by 5:15 latest.
We will try to spend more time at playgroups etc though I think

well, DS1 is v v active and mostly safe at playgroups - if you have a younbg baby I find other mums are v happy to help out, either keeping the older child out of trouble or cuddlng the baby while you do so!

Since delivery I've had to spend alot of time back on labour ward, at cmw offices and also popped to hv clinic, so they were all places that weren't really secured iyswim, will see how it goes at playgroups though, as long as he can't get out of the room, everything else should be ok.

Hello Somemightsay -

You could have been me near on 2 years ago. My two DSs are 19 months apart (hard work that first bit, drove me slightly insane. But I promise you it gets sooooo much easier, we are even thinking about when to have our third!)

My DS1 got the only smack of his life when I caught him running away laughing from my week old newborn who had blood running down his cheek (scratched).

Obviously smacking isnt the answer (I felt terrible for days).

But here is a quick list of what worked and what didn't.It took me a good few months to get the violence to decrease (still happens now and again, but no more than his contempories now (thankfully).

He was also very affectionate with the baby at times, and his aggression could be directed at anyone completely randomly.

I'll start off on the negatives:

1. Any form of attention to DS1 - shouting, running over, talking to , telling other people what had happened, a general commotion. He definately did not differentiate between good and bad attention til much later.

1. the word naughty - in any form (step/boy), he used to say Me naughty, then go and be naughty laughing his head off.

1. Time out- bascially in his view point a right laugh, and more attention all in one - fab!

Now the positives;

1. a gentle 'we don't hit', then completely ignored. No eyecontact, no anger, no noise, no nothing for one minute. (remove baby away)

1. When he is on good form, let him hug/kiss baby, the baby won't break promise!

1. Tell him how much the baby loves him/ likes him /thinks he is clever especially when he is being loving to anyone. (you only really like people who like you!)

1. get him a doll and pram etc, that can be his baby and play nice games together, show him how to play gently.

1. Get a specially DS1 box, then comes out just before you feed, change the things in it (jigsaws, books,tower bricks etc)

1. If you are going to get angry because he has hurt the baby, grab baby leave the room, abut don't get cross (honestly ever cross episode resulted in at least 3 more attacks)

As soon as DS2 can smile get peekaboo going (DS1 gets loads of attention for making baby smile.

8.Get out a lot, go to the park, wrap up warm and get DS1 knackered. Toddler groups, go with a friend and help each other.

1. Can you afford a minder for a couple of hours maybe twice a week. My childminder had DS1 for 2 hours twice a week for about 2 months (during school hours) great for both of us. Or do shildcare swaps with a friend - maybe a babysitting by you DH for a couple of daytime rest.

10. last of all, treat the baby as you want ds to treat him. Do be afraid to be affectionate incase you make him jealous. Instead it will teach him what to do with this weird creature that has suddenly arrived!

god I better stop, but it's brought it all back!

My two are now 3 and 22 months. They do fight but they are the best of friends. they have just spent the last hour before bed dancing to music, playing chase and cars. They had each other in stiches for ages and DS1 gave Ds2 a kiss unprompted when DS1 fell over.

GOOD LUCK you have all my best wishes

sorry that was an essay

Hello

I have 2 DD's who are 18 months apart (dd2 now 1½) and have had similar issues. What I have found really helpful is the advice in the book "Unconditional parenting".

The basic advice on this issue is that you have to explain to your ds1 how the baby feels when being hit etc. The goal is to make your ds1 understand that he needs to stop hurting the baby - not because otherwise mummy gets cross / ignores him / puts him on the naughty step - but because he is hurting his little brother and making him cry.

It's really all about teaching our children to empathise with other peoples' feelings rather than teaching them to "behave" because otherwise bad things will happen to themselves.

Likewise praise in the sense that "what a good and clever boy you are for being nice to your little brother..." should actually rather be "that's really nice of you - look how happy you made your little brother by getting him that toy...".

Hope it makes sense and good luck over the next months!

noonki Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of that out, I'm sure all your tips will come in handy and it's good to hear other peoples experiences and to know I'm not the only one finding this bit difficult! I do let ds1 touch and kiss the baby, I didn't want to make baby an out of bounds thing, and ds2 can be very sweet and gentle with him.
We can't afford any form of childcare, so that one's out, but the rest sound great. Thanks again.
NewDKmum I'd not really thought about it like that. When he's been nice, I've been telling ds what a good and clever boy he is and what a wonderful big brother he is, but what you've sais makes lots of sense soI will start explaining how baby must feel (although he doesn't cry), and one day ds1 will understand these expinations.
Thank you.

I have a 19 month age gap too between my two. I just encouraged DS1 to be pleasant and made a huge fuss when he was. I kept saying how much DS2 loved his big brother and how they would play together when he was a bit bigger. How much he loved having a big brother in the bath with him, in the back of the car with him etc...
I know this sounds a bit stange but DS1 loves people chasing him pretending to be monsters, so I used to chase DS1 around the house with DS2 saying Blake was the baby monster. DS1 loved (and still loves it), DS2 enjoys it too. I used to do that quite often (at least a couple of times a day) - ending with DS2 having a little lie on DS1 (me holding him) wherever DS1 eventually threw himself on the floor. I honestly think it helped.

I also got out the house every day too. Even just to the park or put them both in the buggy and went around the local shops.

DS2 is 9 monmths old now and DS1 is great with him - a good help. It will pass and it seems to be a really nice age gap now. DS1 stops DS2 crying whilst I cook dinner etc by taking him toys and even tries to wipe his nose for him!

mumoftoby that sounds so sweet, the nose wiping! My ds1 likes being chased by 'monsters' too, might give that a try later.
Thank you.

I have a 22month gap between my two. When DD was born I put her in the playpen for the first 2 months so DS could just carry on being a toddler and charging around. I slowly introduced her to the play mat and watched them like a hawk and they have always been fine together.

Gonna give the play pen a go, I hate the baby beinbg in the moses basket most of the day, and think s1 needs that time and space to adjust and get used to baby too.
Thanx

Keep them apart - sorry. No toddler can be trusted alone with a new baby. And I think he's too young to understand that he mustn't hurt the baby - it's no use being cross with him.

And remember that all the baby needs is warmth, an clean nappy and milk. He won't notice if she's being "neglected"!
Deal with her as quickly as you can and concentrate on ds1.

Thanx seeker I have read that when there's 2 of them you should always deal with the first born first to curb jealousy, but when it's your first baby, they say you shouldn't leave them at all to cry because it will affect bonding and trust blah blah blah. Funny how they write all these books and articles to suit whatever's needed isn't it?
You are right though, and I seem to be quite lucky that the baby doesn't seem to be that bothered being held or not, so he is spending most of the time in his moses basket or in a bouncy chair freeing me up to spend time with ds1.

I think that as soon as the baby is old enough (sooner than you think) to be entertained, he will be so entertained by his big brother that it will make up for any "neglect" in the early weeks! Often it's when the baby first laughs that the older sibling starts to see some point in it!

Good luck. It is hard, but having two is great fun once they can interact properly

Tried the playpen and ds1 either held onto the sides to give it a good shake or threw toys in there which has to be worse than him hitting from a close distance iyswim, so may scrap playpen. ds1 doesn't care that he gets shouted at. I'm at wits end for what to do