Help! 7 month old waking for 2 hours a night. What to do?

[Shylily]

I returned 16 days ago from 2 months in Australia. DD (7 months) has always been a bit disturbed at night but she had dropped both night feeds and was sleeping 630pm-6.30am until 2 weeks before we left to come back to the UK (so it's not purely jet-lag). She has now taken up the 10pm feed and is waking for 2 hours in the middle of the night (2am-4am or 3-5am). She chats and squeals for an hour or so before she works to a scream. Some nights she'll take a feed, others not. Last night I offered milk after an hour (I'd put the dummy in once or twice) and she refused. After another hour I ended up rocking her to sleep. She then slept to 8am.
She is not one to respond to being left and will scream hysterically if left to cry without being taken out of her cot(I have tried 'controlled crying' a few times for day naps unsuccessfully and I've tried 'ssh pat' in the bed but she gets in a total state). Also, she's now waking DS 2years 3 months.
Any suggestions? DS was in such a hard-core routine by 3 months that nothing has ever broken it! He still has 2.5 hour sleep in the day and sleeps a solid 12 hours at night - except when being woken by DD from the other end of the house! DD has been harder to 'train' and I still have difficulty getting consistent day naps from her (today she only had one nap of an hour - usually at least one 1.5 hour). She can self-settle (but doesn't always).
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am now losing tolerance and I'm a crabby old cow in the day too!

Forgot to say, she's also having 3 large solid feeds and snacks in the day!

Hi Shylily, we went through the same thing with DD from 10-12 months. We were exhuasted and at our wits end so know exactly how you feel. For us the solution was to cut down her day time sleeps to 2x45 mins and put her to bed an hour later than we were (8 instead of 7) but in your case she can already go on little sleep in the day for her age so not sure that's the solution.

There was another thread on here a while back with lots of people experiencing this. Will see if I can find it as there may be some other ideas for you to try.

Thanks PorridegeBrain. She slept through last night and I got Gina Ford out today (the things you do when you're desperate)! So far DDs done the 2 naps recommended in the 7 month routine and eaten more solids than usual so fingers crossed for tonight.

Hi there,
Ds did something similar - started at about 5/6 months, and this went on and off until he was about 11 months old..! Hopefully you won't have such an extended time of it with your dd, but the only way we managed with ds was eventually to co-sleep. Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but it helped everyone get more sleep in our house.

You could give her a phone and she could phone for a chat with my ds who also likes a couple of hours up and about overnight? It would pass the time for them.

Found the thread at last (hope the link works!)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=sleep&threadid=660395-Long-night-time-wakings-in-a-14-mo#13877333

My 10mo has done this a few times. Could it be teething?

My DS just seems to be awake and Calpol never works so it is not teething with him. I just bring him downstairs and let him play until he starts to whinge, then I take him back to bed. I get a duvet a try to nap on the couch (he can't crawl yet)

Good idea Lawks!
Thanks for the thread PorridegeBrain - I'll go through it.
Neenztwinz - I would have said no to teething, then the other night when I had decided to get tough, she cried on and off for 4 hours (we fed, walked, watched telly, played, got irritated) and at 8am there was a tooth! Oops!
She's slept through the last 3 nights but woken at 5.30am on 2 of those.
For 3 days I've been following the Gina Ford rountine for 7 month olds (note to self - never tell people you will NEVER do something because you might just do it!) and she's actually done all her day sleeps and sleeping more soundly through the night.
Thanks for all the positive messages.

Thanks again Porridgebrain - I looked at that thread and another - very useful. If I can crack it for long enough it might become habit. I realise reading one thread that she was sleeping on her front from 5months and she stopped doing that again 4 weeks ago (screams if I try to settle her on her front) which is when the sleep problems started. I've started swaddling again (which seems a bit mad) but the minute her arm gets free she starts flapping, wakes and can't go back off. Whatever works, I guess.

Aaargh, sleep is the most trying part of children IMHO! You could try this book for answers. I have two children who weren't good sleepers and one who was/is. Its comforting to know that you can bring them all up the same with different outcomes.

What time are her daytime naps? That can play a part. My DD2 persistently woke at 5am until I found out (through the book) that her 9.30am nap was doing it. It was the end of her nights sleep that she should have been taking at 5am. I moved that nap until later in the morning and she stopped doing it after 2 days, what a relief!

Tell us her nap times...........

Thanks.
I started the Gina Ford routine 3 days ago which has helped her go through but she's only going to 5.30am. The routine is 7am wake and feed 9/9.30 sleep for 30 mins. 11.45 eat lunch 12.30 sleep (she only makes 1.5 hours but she'd be better off having 2-2.5 hours but she just can't do it so she's usually awake by 1.50) 6.15pm feed 6.30pm bed (totally hammered by then).

Oh - my DS used to do 9-11 and 1-3 and sleep 12 hours at night!

lily, do try getting that 9/9.30am nap just a little later and see if, after a few days, it helps the 5.30am wake. I really couldn't believe it would make a difference but it did.

Thanks frumpygrumpy.
I'll try tomorrow. She woke at 4.15am and I left her chatting until she broke in to a scream at 5 and eventually had to feed her. Aaah! Just did half a feed but it still meant she took hardly anything at 7am. Tried stretching her a bit but by the time I put her down at 9.15 she broke in to a full-scale overtired hysteria which lasted about 10 minutes and finally stopped with the 8th replacement of the dummy. At least she went off to sleep in her bed.
What time would you put your DD2 down for the afternoon nap?
It would be better if I could get that one slightly later but she's so strung out by 12.30. I can occasionally push it to 1pm which means she sleeps til 2.30 but usually she wakes just before 2. That means that she falls asleep during the night feed at 6ish which I really don't want her to do.
Thanks again.

lily, I think it was 1pm. Sounds like a little tweak and you could have this sorted. Its just catch22 isn't it. If you could get her to take her morning nap about 10am and try not to make it too long it would be fab and I'd like to think would make all the difference to the 5am wake. It sounds so similar to my problem. Could you take her into her room and play near the cot, maybe do bubbles, something very calm but distracting, anything just to eke her out beyond 9.30am. It might take time to make the change slowly i.e a change of say 15 mins per day until you are at the time you want. Its hard but very worth it!

Do get that book, it has really good points in it.

Thanks frump.
She slept a bit longer this am - woke her at 10.30. Got her back down, asleep at 1pm (after 10 mins of misery). Makes it a bit more difficult when DS (2yrs3months) is downsstairs screaming 'MUUUUUUUM MUUUUUMMYYYYYYYYYYYY. Building my blocks!')
I will get a copy of that book and keep my fingers crossed.

Any joy?

Wed night she slept through til 6.10am. Yay!
Last night she woke at 4.50 but went back to sleep within 15-20 mins then woke at 7am. Fingers crossed. She's also cutting another tooth so that's pretty good, considering. Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd love it to work and get better. Its such a strain doing that 5am thing. Much worse than say a 2am waking IMHO. Sending all my sleepy vibes your way!!!

Thanks!