Talk to me about late talkers

[BlueberryPancake]

I'm really worried, although everyone is telling me not to... please share your experiences if you have a child who started talking late.

DS2 will be 2 in April and he doesn't say anything. No mummy, no daddy, nothing at all. He sometimes (rarely) says woof if he sees a dog and wraaa if he sees the image of a lion, but that's it.

I have tried signing, and he doesn't get it even if I repeat the signs often and am consistent.

He seems to play well for his age, he is active and happy, has good coordination, likes toys that 'fit in' with his age. He knows a number of nursery rhymes gestures and he can hum many of them.

The thing is that I remember him saying a few words in around September - he was saying Duck, Ready Steady (well kind of) and mama dada in the right context and has now stopped saying those words.

Another detail is that he started dribbling lately. He rarely babbles (exept if he sees a dog in the park or a cat) but he often makes a nnnn sound. He is on a waiting list for a hearing test.

Sorry this is long. I don't think I'm looking for reassurance from people whose children spoke at a normal age and are going to say 'he'll be fine, don't worry, bla bla bla' I really don't need that.

I would like practical experience from people whose children spoke later, to see if there's anything I should raise already with GP, how to work my way through the sytem, what to ask for, tips on how to improve my communications with DS and how to improve his communications with us.

Thank you.

and he dribbles a lot too

Blueberry - is there any way you can go through your local Surestart to get to a speech therapist? This is what we did - and got a one-to-one with a SALT for 2 hours in just 3 weeks

In our case my DD never really points, does say single words but no joining etc and it was amazing seeing it all from a professional stand point. We came away very reassured....and with a fast-track for more help in the summer should we need it and loads of top tips.

I DO know what you mean - if you're worried, nothing but seeing a professional will put your mind at rest. If you've not already done it then give Surestart a try. Good luck

early intervention is the best regardless if all sorts itself out in few months and nothing to worry about its easier to come off a list than get on it

the only thing that worries me with what you have said is the fact he did speak and now doesnt speak at all it can be common and lots of encouragement may be needed to get him to speak but its still worrying

my ds i took him to the gp at 2 as had only few words but was very good with numbers colors shapes games that took alot to put together puzzles etc

in our case we had very long wait for SALT so was very glad i took him when i did

i was told to shorten my sentences to around 3 words hold 2 objects and ask which one he wanted he didnt have to answer but if just pointing at it "[name] wants crisps
water or juice
you want ball
mummy have ball

i also had to verbalize everything i was doing from making tea to switching a light on as they said to speak they need to understand the word so by saying everything i was doing he was learning the actions to the word within weeks of doing this he was using single words

getting your ds to answer for himself and maybe saying to your other ds [name] turn now lots of praise for the smallest of things

in our case my ds turned out to have ASD he was dx at 3 but the steps used are used for all children as we didnt know then that he was ASD but even so by 3 he was putting words together at 3.6 he woke up talking in sentences

do go and do get seen as the earlier the intervention will benefit you and your ds in getting the help and advise you need

as i always say dont be worried or feel your overreacting and dont always listen to the its normal and all will be ok in our case it wasnt and im glad i listened to myself and went on my instincts always trust yourself if your worried then seek help if all turns out ok then great take off the list but in yr if you were to go on you'll be looking at another yr wait so best to do it now while still so young

good luck xx

i was also told to do activities gettting him to blow bubbles exercises facial muscles

then you blow bubbles stop and say more and attempt to eventually get him to say more

putting games together and encouraging again to say more make it into a game my ds took to this really quick and if he dragged me off to what he wanted i had to say you want help

then id say this every time you want help eventually he knew to say help

just little steps i was given to encourage him to speak

DD1's best friend was exeptionally dribbly (hard to get across just how much there was) and had no speech until past 2. I used to mind him. He has adenoid problems. He now talks very well (just turned 3) but only understandable by people who know him well, sort of how a bloodhound might speak!

You could consider paying for a consultation with a Speech & Language Therapist. There will be a very long wait on the NHS. Although a hearing test should really be done first - quite shocked at the 18 week wait!
We did this for DD (now 7) when she was just over 2 as she used hardly any words and cetainly could not string any words together. The few words she did use were often shortened - e.g she called me "me" instead of Mummy (mum-me). We found the consultation very helpful and were given games/ideas ect to help speech development. I can't remember the exact cost but I think it was around £170.00. (5 yrs ago)
DD's speech did take longer than some children to develop despite our efforts however when she did start there was no stopping her - it was almost as though she wasn't going to speak until she could do it properly !! We seemed to almost bypass the "baby talk" stage altogether !!
I would try & bring forward the hearing test if at all possible - because if all is well there everything else should fall into place eventually.
We were told to use simple short sentences with DD - E.g instead of "You can have smarties when we get to the shops if you're good and don't cry on the bus."
try
"We're going on the bus. We're going to the shops. I hope you're going to be good. We'll get some smarties later."
Presented in little chunks for easier "digestion".
Also try hide & seek and lift the flap books - ask your DS what is it? Use animals ,
trains, cars ect..
Ask very simple questions. Would you like milk or juice?
Also make sure you are actually giving him time & opportunity to respond - look him in the eye with the expectation of a verbal reply.
Drawing & modelling could also be useful - you can deliberately draw faces with something missing and say as a prompt "oh dear" and wait hoping the child will say "no eyes"
If you sort the washing you can make piles and say "daddy's socks"/ "mummy's pants" ect. When you've given a few examples ask the child "what have you got there?"
Have tea parties and hand the things around: monkey's plate/teddy's plate ect.
Hope some of this helps - try not to worry & good luck!

hi there! hope you find this a comfort - my ds, 2, has been tested for hearing loss since birth and it has always considered, if there was a problem to be mild. He was given hearing aids after a year but did not get on with them and kept pulling them off. At just under 2 he had a few words but kept loosing some words he had previously. he finally got grommits fitted just before 2nd birthday and in a matter of weeks his vocabulary has blossomed. If your child does have hearing loss and you would like grommits the surgery takes 15 minutes and my ds was up and running around after half hour. If they tell you it is usual to wait until the child is 4 and 2 is young, that is largely because most children aren't identified until school age. My ds has really benefited but realise all cases different

Hi BlueberryPancake..

Another one here in the same boat. My ds is 2.3 and hardly talks, only says mama, dada, lala (nanny), backpack, Na (no), Mor (more) and oh-oh, when dropping something.

We have had his hearing tested all fine, and he has been seeing a private speech therapist who has ruled out asperger/autistic spectrum problems (sorry not wording this very well)

The speech therapist has recently said that he wants to rule out oral dyspraxia, she is apparently 50/50 on this at the moment, as she can't rationalise the different between his receptive language and expressive language.

I would second everyone saying that you need to get this checked asap, as I have been reading up on oral dsyprxia and other speech disorders and it seems early intervention is important.

I found this website quite useful:
www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/oralapraxia (Americans call it apraxia)

My ds does dribble, but has great facial expressions and can do most of the things on this link, although not all very well! He interacts with other children well etc, so we are not convinced it is oral dyspraxia, but if it is, early treatment gets the best results. There are some good posts from a poster called jimjams in the talk archives if you run a search on oral dsypraxia, although I am by no means saying that your ds has this, the more information the better in my opinion!!

Also is there a history of late talkers in your family? My dh didn't say a word until he was 3 and then came out with full sentences, and my sister was even later at 3.5!

Sorry hope this works..

//www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/oralapraxia.html

This is SO helful girls thank you so much.

Away from home - spot on. I couldn't BF ds2 because I wasn't 'making enough milk' his latching on was poor and he kept on latching on off on off, he did the same with his bottles so much so that I remember my sister commenting that he was drinking funny. He eats well but still loves puree foods and food that is easy to eat - scambled eggs, beans, mashed potatoes, etc. He dislikes bread because it sticks in his mouth. There's so much info on that website which is spot on with what I can see on DS. Will get the referal for SALT as soon as possible, and will push for early intervention. Many people have told me not to worry, that he'll be OK, that some boys speak late, etc etc but my gut feeling tellsm e that something isn't quite right.

Blueberry, if the stuff on that cherab website all "fits" then you've potentially found your answer (or at least part of it).

My son has receptive language delay -very different - if you're looking at dyspraxia that's something you're going to need lots of speech therapy for. Try not to accept long delays. You can find a private speech therapist through a website at www.helpwithtalking.com. But you'll need a specialist in this area.

I suggest you read the book "what to do if he's not talking yet" which I think is mentioned on that cherab site. It's very focussed on apraxia (as the Americans call it). It will help you confirm whether that's the issue you're looking at. I have it and will send it to you if you prefer (it's no good to me as it's all about expressive language).

Obviously I can't jump to conclusions but I remember thinking that there was something 'mechanically' wrong with DS speach - as if his mouth doesn't function properly. For example, I can walk in a room and he is doing all the gestures for 'twinkle twinkle' and huming the song, but not pronouncing any of the words. It's as if he knows the song, and think of the words, but they dont reach his mouth or he can't pronounce them. This just gives me a way of explaining to gp / therapist how I think and gives me more tools to explain myself.

I will get the books recommended, andthanks Lingle I can send you a cheque for pp if you really don't need the book -

Loads of spot-on advice here.

I would contact your local slt dept and ask if you can refer yourself. If not, ask your gp/hv to do it. If they are reluctant to do so maybe mention that a friend who is a slt thinks he might have verbal dyspraxia and you insist he is seen asap(twisting the truth slightly!).

How is ds with chewing? I'm wondering whether you could ask for a feeding assessment referral too (to develop a wider range of textures and cope better with foods that require more chewing?). This may get you into the system more easily if the gp/hv are reluctant to refer. (Slts also do eating and drinking assessments)

Going back to his sp/lang development. Also think about creating plenty of opportunity for him to communicate what he wants i.e. don't be too accomodating when he wants something or just provide a drink and banana at 10am because that is when he has a snack.

So, as well as giving him 2 choices for as many things as possible, try also ''mis-understanding'' what he wants or putting something slightly out of reach after he asks for something/makes a choice. Give him a broken pencil to draw with or a pencil and no paper. Give him only one sock, etc.

Also, you could do silly things and see if he comments. Walk into the room acting normally but have a sticker on your nose, wear your hair in a funny way.

Get creative and have fun

thanks Desperate housewife I love the tips, I do tend to give him what I think he wants because it's easy (I have a 3 yo who can be demanding for time and attention). I love the bubbles tip mentioned earlier and will do this at the weekend.

His chewing is generally fine, but he does perfer things that are easy to chew/swallow. He can drink from a normal cup (without lid), and with a straw, and can blow kisses and candles and he blows on his food when too hot. He likes some things that are hard to chew like raw carrrots and peppers. He is starting at a small pre-school as soon as he turns two. He is getting a bit frustrated at the moment and will easily cry if he doesn't get what he wants, whcih I understand and I try to acomodate him without pushing to cry - for example, I always insist on Ta when I give him something, and will often hold the thing back until he says ta (which he never says) and I try to give him time to walk. He doesn't - I'm sure there are loads of things I could do better/more of but hey, other things get in the way like the washing, cooking, other kid, etc........

Sounds as though you already doing lots of great stuff.

Have you ever seen the Cbeebies program 'Something Special'? Both of my dcs love it and have a fascination with copying signs from there.

A really powerful word is 'more'. This would be a good sign to get him to learn and can be used in a multitude of different situations. With one hand closed,thumb at top (as though holding an icecream cone, so as not to spill the icecream!), other hand lays flat on top of first hand, palm down. Always say the word when making the sign.

Please and thankyou signs are very similar. Hand up to chin, touch chin with fingertips and move hand away from body and downwards. Move a short way for 'please', further away for 'thankyou'.

I used to use this with both of my nt dcs and even now only have to put my fingers to my chin with a meanungful look for them to say please/thankyou!

If you do decide to go further down the Makaton route, there is lots of literature and videos available and i-player has Something Special.

Someone has already mentioned Talking Tots. It was developped by slts and has been franchised. If there is one in your area would be worth looking in to. Have seen some of the material used and it looks good.

hi all, i have just joined mumsnet so this is all new to me. i have 3 children all girls aged 2, 3yr6 months and aged 8. my middle child who's 3 and a half is in the process of being diagnosed with oral dyspraxia, i dont know much about it so would be grateful for some info. she has been a late developer from the word go , she didnt sit up until she was 12 months and didnt walk till she was nearly 20 months.she can talk a little and puts a couple of words together but alot of it is hard to understand. she is a very happy and well behaved child she just cant say wat she wants to say, it must be so frustrating for her, her younger sister talks better than she does!you think your the only one until you join groups like this, there are so many people going through the same thing...wat causes it?anyway, thanks for reading and i would be very grateful for any tips and advice.thanks.xx