dd (6) doing strange gestural twitches with her hands and head - ocd / anxiety?

[imaginaryfriend]

It may be nothing at all but after having spent the half term with dd I noticed that she's doing some strange gestures with her hands and her head. It seems to go in a pattern - 2 flicks of her right hand (in a John Inman 'I'm free!' kind of way), two twitches of her head to the left, then two twitches of her left hand. Sometimes it's more complex and goes on longer - for instance when I'm reading her bedtime story and she's sitting next to me, she seems to be twitching her hands and head almost constantly in some kind of rhythm.

I asked her, lightly, about it but she was very embarrassed to talk about it and said eventually something about 'the tickle monster' - she said she doesn't like it when something touches her. I did notice that on busy days out with lots of people around she was very wary about being touched or brushed past. But I can't see why she'd do it at home and when I'm reading a story for instance?

Anybody experienced similar? Any tips on how to handle it? Or not to handle it and expect it to disappear like so many of these weird developmental things do?

Oh Tiggi, do you think? [worried]

And tourettes and AS are "co-morbids" and often occur together as you may know...

Don't want to worry you, but just a suggestion to perhaps consider it? It is far better to know and get an early diagnosis if there is any possibility as it saves so much stress in the longer term.

Thanks Tiggy
How would I go about ruling it out / getting diagnosed (if I chose to go down that route, at the moment I have a head-in-the-sand approach)

DS2 started wth tics when he was 5yrs old. He is now nearly 8yrs old. I purposely waited for a couple of years before seeking help because a diagnosis will generally only be considered if the symptoms have lasted 2 years or more(or 1 year depending on which tourettes website you look at). I took him along to my GP and explained my concerns. He then refered me to a local paediatrician who diagnosed him there and then. He is still waiting pshchological appt to assess his hyperactivity/impulsiveness. This same team will also liase with his school allowing the staff to learn how best to deal with it also. And myself and DH will be taught techniques/behaviour therapy to deal with it too. So the process is still ongoing atm.
For the actual diagnosis of tourettes, thee were no tests or anyhing he had to do. It was based on what the paediatrician witnessed and also video recordings of him which i showed to the consultant.

First step is to go to your GP, express your concerns and ask for a referral for assessment at your local Child Development Centre.

Have a read up on it if you can-Tony Attwood's book "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome"is very informative. There are also some good websites-have a look at the NAS one www.nas.org.uk. as well.

imaginaryfriend - I've been a bit how this thread has developed for you - I would be crapping myself. By all means take your dd to the doctors and please post again when your GP tells you there in NOTHING WRONG with her. Take care

Thanks for the link tiggi
I may want to discuss this with you further (removing head from sand and sand from ears first) but will start a new thread so as not to take over IF's one.

IF, how often does your dd do these habitual gestures?

I do agree wtih you Ican. I honestly at this stage don't think minor tics are anything other than anxiety.

I am very sorry this thread became about my dd sorry IF.

Fwiw, I also dont' think there is anything wrong with my dd, and certainly not with yours. I think children just have these habits. (that is certainly what our gp told dh when we saw him last year)

I would be happy to help hippi

ICANDOTHAT- I am sure IF and hippis DDs are fine, but I think it is important to be aware of what these things might mean, By the way, I am a bit at your GP advising you that children always grow out of these things.

OCD and Tourettes both start in childhood. Symptoms such as those descibed could be indicative of these disorders and all children certainly will not grow out of them. What favours would a parent be doing a child by simply ignoring them if there was a real problem?

What tiggiwinkle said. Although said it much better than I could.

Hope everything goes ok for you and your dd imaginaryfriend.

hippi, I'm happy to share the thread with you, no worries.

I haven't really considered taking dd to the GP with this yet as it's so new to her. She doesn't show any other signs of anything like AS or Tourette's. She does show signs of anxiety and I know she gets thoughts in her mind that she finds hard to shift - lately it's been about dp or I getting our heads chopped off - why oh why did we teach her about Henry VIII?????

It's hard to say how often she does the twitches because it varies. Sometimes it seems quite constant. I notice her hands twitching and her head twitching to the side over and over. But it's quite subtle, you wouldn't necessarily notice it until you were aware of it IYSWIM? At school according to the teacher she's quiet and reserved, very high achieving in literacy, struggling a bit with maths. She never cries at school or shows much emotion at all from what I can gather, which is rather shocking considering what a diva she is at home!

Hi IF, thanks I was worried about it (the thread thing)

Dd is the same as your dd - high achieving in literacy, average in maths. She does participate well in class according to the teacher but finds frienships difficult and is often on the outskirts of groups.

I think I am just going to keep an eye on dd for now. Her ticcing and gesturing, whilst never completely away for any long period of time, seems to flare up badly during times when things are changing (friendships, classrooms, teachers etc) so for now I am going to carry on putting it down to anxiety and see how things develop.

my husband had lots of tics as a child and grew out of them... he still has a habitual kind of cough that remains actually. i think that's classed as a tic.

i think i would take her to the doctors just in case though.

if it really is simply a tic/twitch, encourage her to take part in activities like judo/karate/tai chi as they can help control them.

spinspin, to be honest I haven't found it too bad at the moment, not in any way getting in the way of her day to day life, so I haven't thought of doing anything just yet. But I've put that book on my amazon list because it looks generally helpful at easing anxieties in kids.

When you say your ds really suffered, would you mind describing that period in more detail?

Ds1 developed complex systems of tapping in patterns, walking in odd ways, making sure actions were done on both sides of the body about a year ago when he was 7.5. I have to say that it got worse and worse as he got more and more anxious about the things that were worrying him. We didn't fully realise what was going on for a couple of months, then went down the ignoring / distracting / trying to get him to relax route but nothing made it better. It eventualy got to the point where he was unable to read a book because he had to keep going over the same line, and he was permanently angry and confused.

We finally took him to the GP who referred him to CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health) and they have been brilliant. In fact as soon as ds1 started talking about what was going on he started to improve. They saw him a couple of times and then gave him a few sessions of CBT but really it was just having adult professionals talk through it with him that made the difference in a way we as his parents could not. One thing they have done with him is make a book about his OCD and how he dealt with it so that if it flares up again he can remember that he can get through it.

At our last session the psychotherapist asked what was the one thing he would say to other children in the same position. His answer was, "Tell someone".

He is now a happy child again and in our case seeking professional help was definitely the way to go. I know it is hard to talk to GPs like this, especially when you fear they may brush you off, but everyone we came into contact with was brilliant. For us,delaying any further would have been the wrong move. I know how awful it is but hope it is reassuring to hear that last summer ds1 was in an awful place but in a relatively short time he is back to the boy he was before ocd.

Thank you for this information. I'll definitely keep an eye on dd although I'm not hugely worried right now.

Were your kids happy during their worst OCD times? Dd seems quite happy most of the time she just has these odd moments of fear when she'll say something to me. But the twitching seems to happen whether she's worried or not.

Dd herself does not seem worried, but my worry is that it will make her life hard once her classmates spot the tics and tease her because of them.