Have just attempted "the naughty step" for the first time - it was a nightmare! Help!!!

[millypip]

I have a very strong-willed, independent 2 year old daughter. (2 and 2 months) She's is very 2!!!!

This evening, just before bathtime I asked her to put away the crayons which she had thrown all over the floor and she just picked them up and threw them around more, and more and more.... I am very conscious that shouting and losing my temper is not constructive. (I don't always succeed though To cut a long story short, I decided to send her to the naughty step. Our stairs are very steep and the hall floor is hard tiles so I decided to use the front door mat as that is safer.

The problem is that she wouldn't stay on it. the tantrum had started and she just kept running off (then rolling, then creeping etc). So I had to keep starting my 2 minutes again and again. The whole thing lasted nearly an hour until I let her get away without 1 3/4 minutes.

What made it harder is that she didn't have her beloved "bear" and I wouldn't give him to her until the 2 minutes was over.

My questions are:

1. Should I have let her have bear.

1. When she keeps running off the step/mat what should I do?

1. Do I start the count over again whenever she gets off the step?

She is a clever little monkey and is aware of and understands more than I realise. It makes things harder!

Sorry for the long message but it was a nightmare evening and I'm left feeling as though I made a right mess of it! You have to start somewhere though don't you... (I also have an 8 month old son who luckily fell asleep in his chair in the bathroom - phew!).

I appreciate any help and advice!

I haven't tried this yet but I have watched the nanny programs on tv in the hope of tips. They do show the techique taking hours to start with.

I prefer consequences/bribery ie 'If you throw your crayons around they will go away for a day' (consequenes) 'If I have to pick up your crayons for you your bath will be tepid because it got cold while I was finding the crayons.' (Obviously not really cold, just not very hot and very quick). Tidy up before favourite tv program; it may be over if you don't hurry! (Is this consequences or bribery?)

Amazingly, it is starting to work!

1. NO

2. put her back again and again (took 4 hours for my 3 year old a few months ago, yes from lunch time till tea time)

3. yes

the 1st few times are the hardest but they soon learn that they get iff quicker when they stay there.

also u sau get away with 1 3/4 mins... she must not leave until you let her

1. NO

2. put her back again and again (took 4 hours for my 3 year old a few months ago, yes from lunch time till tea time)

3. yes

the 1st few times are the hardest but they soon learn that they get iff quicker when they stay there.

also u sau get away with 1 3/4 mins... she must not leave until you let her

sorry. not sure how or why it double posted

Oooh, is it worth it? I've never used the naughty step. She seems a bit young for it, isn't she? I would have thought it was more of a case of picking your battles, especially in the evening when you're both tired!

When my dd refuses to pick up crayons or whatever, I say I will help and insist she helps, but it's more symbolic than actual help.... I think if I tried to go head to head and make her pick them all up I would end up in a very unproductive power struggle.

Poor you, it sounds like it must have been a nightmare.

I dont use the step with my 2 year old as I dont think he would understand it yet. I find that putting him out of the room for a short time (a minute or so) gets better results as he hates being ignored. I didnt start to use the step with dd until she was closer to 3 as she understood it more then.

Thank you all! I would like to use the step as its a good tool to keep up my sleeve but I also think that Aranea, you have a good point too about choosing my battles and the timings. I thought 2 was the minimum age but maybe she is too young. Will try again in a few months maybe...

I will try the putting her out of the room option too. I do worry though that she would just go and find something to play with. Last week, she wasn't going to bed for her afternoon nap and was trying to play instead. I decided to take her toys out of her bedroom temporarily so there was nothing left to play with. She started to help me take them out! You can't win can you!!!!! It's a big learning curve but worth it.... :-)

If you think she understands, then I would use it. It is tough at first but once they get the idea it is so much better than shouting or getting angry - it's a really good consistent consequence to bad behaviour.

I would also continue to use the step/mat rather than her bedroom, as there is nothing to play with and I wouldn't want the bedroom to become associated with punsihment, because you want them to go to bed happily!

Yes, every time she gets off the mat put her back on (even if it is 100 times) and restart the count every time.

At 2.2, I would expect help with tidying (even if token help), and consequences if not - whether that is the naughty step, or some other consequence. And as Nanny L says the amount of time doesn't really matter all that much, as long as it is you saying "ok, your time is up" rather than the child wriggling away and you letting them.

NannyL - is 4 hours really worth it with a 3yr old? Surely by then the whole incident has moved on, and the punishment (timeout) is no longer for the crime (throwing pencils) but for disobeying.

My 3yr old would not be able to link the punishment and the crime together after such a long time.

When the saga had been going on for about 40 minutes I did say to her, do you know why you're here etc and she seemed to understand. I think..... That leads me to another question - should you completely ignore them when they are on the naughty "step" or walk away and leave them? I tried to stand with my back to her so that I was withdrawing attention and affection but I had to keep the eyes in the back of my head switched on to see when she was creeping off!

I'm not going to give up and will try again with the help that you have all given me. Thank you! I will definitely think carefully and choose my battles although I don't want her to think that she can get away with things at some times and not at others. Ultimately they both need to learn from as early an age as possible that they must do what they're told and that Mummy and Daddy don't just tell them off for the fun of it. Boundaries boundaries boundaries.... It's a minefield isn't it!!!! :-)

BTW - The day did end well and she said sorry, gave me a cuddle had a nice bath and was tucked up safely in bed where she is sleeping soundly now - I hope. I'm not a mean Mummy and always like to end the day with a cuddle and a nice chat before sleep. They're so precious and I just want to get it as right as a can (knowing that I won't get it right all the time!). Time for my bed now, DS is waking me up at 5.30am at the moment the little pickle! Thank you all.... :-)

sounds like a nightmare
no don't take her comfort object away as a punishment - this will have lasting effects on your relationship if you use punitive methods like this on a young child
children this age do muck about - especially in the evening when tired
throwing crayons hardly crime of century
just say "oh dear, the crayons are on the floor, what a mess, let;s pick them up together" and just get on with it
if you get into power struggle with a child this age you both lose out

you say she is very 2 - let her be 2! she will be 3 one day, then 4...this doesn't last. don't use the naughty sttep - it doesn't teach children how nice people behave to one another. just treat her with as much kindness and respect as you can summon up at the end of a long day, and wait for this challenging age to pass

i have to say that the naughty step makes me shudder. It feels like it's labelling a child 'naughty' which could have implications for how he/she feels about herself. Ive just re-read "How to talk so children will listen, and listen so children will talk" and its made me more determined to go down the 'unconditional parent' route, where there are no rewards or punishments, but a lot of talking, hugging, making the environment conducive to desired behaviour, making chores into games, being silly etc.

I must keep reminding myself of that when i get really frustrated with my DS (just 2) and a real 'pickle' .

A two year old is too young to understand naughty step.

I tried mine first at the age of 4 and only or a few minutes.

Even now at 6 and 8 it works - its just a moment of separation from the rest of the family for really extemely bad behaviour.

I use it rarely.

Hmmm...interesting one.

Supernanny wasn't around when DD was a toddler (she's now almost 8), but I think that as a tactic it can work well.

I've used the technique a few times in recent years, though I always refer to it as 'time out' rather than the 'Naughty Step'. With DD, it's often a problem of getting her off the stairs, rather than putting her on them, since once she's sat there she's reluctant to enter into any conversation and is quite happy to perch there indefinitely!

I'd agree with those saying that you should pick your battles. But, once picked, I do think that you should follow through.

Whether or not your DD links her behaviour with the crayons to the Naughty Step is possibly not the issue. What it will reinforce is for her to do as she's told. Therefore, if told to go onto the Naughty Step, she must do it and will be made to do it. Which possibly is a lesson that she's not too young to learn.

Admittedly I'm not sure about the notion of unconditional parenting and am fairly strict. But I do believe that children should do as they're told!

Oh boo to the 'naughty step'. She's disagreeing with you. Is that 'naughty?' If you were tired and perhaps wanting a bath and didn't want to tidy up before hand and someone told you you had to, you might feel a bit cross too.

Hugs, reassurance, making things into a game, showing her what to do, picking your battles - these are all good approaches BUT yes, sometimes it's tough and you just want to yell at them "because I said so!"

But that's more about your frustration, isn't it?

I love that you had a cuddle with her at the end of the day. Perhaps if you had picked the crayons up and said 'look, like this' and just got on with it, then when you were having your chat at bedtime you could have said 'It would have been lovely if you had helped picked up the crayons before bath. I love it when you help me you are such a big girl, ' or something - she sounds clever enough to understand that helping mummy is a good thing?

Feel for you - there's no easy way and it is tough with a toddler and a baby - I called it 'the wilderness years'!

Sorry - I know that doesn't help much - but am just not convinced about the whole 'naughty step' thing.

Maybe it's the name. Perhaps 'thinking step' would convince me more! (You could get her a really nice little chair and it could be her 'thinking stool' for when you have asked her to do something she perhaps doesn't want to? Rather than the doormat that people wipe their feet on?)

Sorry - going a bit 'alternative' here!

Have you heard of unconditional parenting? It can be quite good for this age group.

OK, haven't read the other posts so I can give an 'off the cuff' response:

My almost 4 yr old DD only got the hang of 'sitting on the step' about 6 months ago, so you may be expecting too much of your DD. (We don't have a 'naughty' step as we don't like the label).

Having said that, my 21 month DS regularly sits on the step, and is very compliant when I tell him to do it. I think half the time he thinks he is about to go out, and is waiting to get his shoes on, and the other half is because he has seen his sister doing it, so it is normal for him. TBH I only really tell DS to sit on the step so that my DD sees that there is some equity & justice in the world. I suspect once he hits two, he will no longer be so compliant.

I have a very loose definition of sitting on the step - whilst it involves being placed on the step to begin with, I close the door to whatever room I'm in - so in reality it is a matter of not being on the same room as me. So if the offender in question wanders off to another room and plays, so long as they are not with me, I am happy.

I would use 'step sitting' fairly rarely - probably 2 times a week at the most.

My Mum (who is a clinical psychologist) has a phrase that two year old tantrums are to be endured, not cured. I would tend to agree, and for my DD, I tried my best to get through this period by either distracting her, cuddling her, or ignoring the tantrum. My DD was much older than 2 before she really started to understand the idea of 'acceptable behaviour'.

Hope this is of some help.

BTW - a really good book to read is Vicki Iovine's Best Friend's Guide to Toddlers. This is such a funny, chilled out book about toddlers. She was able to express everything I felt - except so much funnier and more eloquently than I could ever have managed. She really does make you realise it is just a phase - and try to enjoy it and make it easier for both of you.

Thank you all so much! There have been many different views here but I've found something helpful in every one and feel much better now. I think I was expecting too much of her. I think that because she now has a baby brother she now seems relatively so much more grown up and i need to keep reminding myself that she is only 2! I will definitely by that book too - thank you "the year of the cat". I was brought up very strictly and it did me no harm but I think I want to try to find that elusive happy medium. Wish me luck! :-)

Something that also struck me was when "Merrylegs" mentioned that it could have been about my frustration too - something for me to think about.

It's sometimes so much easier to take advice from strangers, well it is for me anyway. Thank you.