Is there a link between sleeping all night and food eaten??

[andyrobo237]

I am putting this in here and in 'Sleeping' section as well, so apologise if you read it twice!!

Does anyone think there is a link between the amount of food a toddler eats and his inability to sleep all night??

DS who is 2 (just) has never beena goos sleeper and has very rarely slept all noght on his own in his own bed. He seems to like the comfort of being near me!

He is not a great eater - he prefers to graze all day and does not eat great quantities of food. He will eat cheese, yoghurt, the odd bit of Weetabix and would happily eat chips and sweets and crisps if I let him! I serve up a small portion of tea, literally two tablespoons - the same meal as we have, as well as fruit and yoghurt. I do this so he eats something, as I end up getting up and down all meal time to try to tempt him to eat, so I give him everything I want him to have all in one go. he will pick at them all, sometimes only eat the yoghurt and sometimes just the fruit. He does not get any more.

He has a full 8oz size beaker of milk before bed, which he drinks over a 15 minute period. He then goes to bed at 7 and sleeps until 12.30am or somewhere half an hour either side. He then wakes up and shouts for me. I go in and try to settle him, not very well, and he may do another half hour to an hour. He then ends up in with us and sleeps / wriggles for the rest of the night. At this point he asks for milk, so I get him some (watered down) milk, as you can usually hear his tummy rumbling. Now I know he is too old for this, but I have tried saying no, and it ends upa screaming match for hours, whereas if he has the milk it takes 1 minute and then we go to sleep.

DH is unhappy about this as he gets no sleep and has to go to work - well so do I for 4 days, and then look after 2 kids for the rest of the time, and run a house, etc.

He thinks I should be sorting it as he has had enough - I dont think it is as simple as letting him cry it out, and then we will all sleep happily ever after, and I also dont see that it should be only me that does it!

I cannot see a way forward with this, and I chose the easy option, for me.

Has anyone solved this problem??

i give DS (15months) 2 weetabix before he goes to bed, and he usually sleeps right through from 8pm until 6.30-7am (if he's not teething)

If he only has milk he ALWAYS wakes up in the night.

If that doesn't work for you, the maybe a form of controled crying......

HTH

It seems he isn't eating enough in the day and has become reliant on getting milk half way through the night.

I am tempted to say ignore your DH if he can't work with you to sort this out for all your benefits.

Yes I do generally ignore DH!! He generally talks a load of rubbish!!

I will see whether DS will take some supper tonight - he doesnt even eat two weetabix for breakfast!!!!!

I have v similar problem, ds 2 next month always been a bad eater, about 5 nights a week will refuse to have any tea, I used to then give him cheese yogurt cracker etc just so he would eat something. I have recently stopped this in a desperate attempt to make him realise if he dont eat his tea he will not get anything else therefor will be hungry. He also has an 8oz bottle before bed and wakes in the early hours of the morning.

I also until recetly would give give him a bottle throughout the night if he woke, but have now stopped this which means I'm up and down to him alot more because he will settle for half an hour then wake presumably because he is hungry. I am going to start a food diary and take it to the health visitor when he has his 2 year checkup. I relly dont have any suggestions but in my opinion yes an unsettled night is the result of being hungry.

I have 2.4 year old good sleeper, and I'm a firm believer in:

-lots of physical exercise and fresh air in the afternoon,

• not too many snacks after 4 pm
• Big tea at 6 (if they'll eat it)
• at least half hour playing in bath
• offered milk just before bed..

I think it does impact with what they eat in the day.

OMG andyrobo are you me??????? My DS is exactly the same as yours although mine could take up to 4 bottles in the night . Unfortunately I am unable to let him go at his own pace and co-sleep indefinitely as we are expecting number 3 in August. This Friday my sleep training will commence . I am going to lie on an airbed next to his cot and try to get him to go back to sleep by holding his hand and nothing else..........wish me luck.

Suwoo is that going to be comfortable for you??!! Once you have cracked it, will you lend me the airbed and let me try it! I suggested that to my childminder, and she looked at me as if I had two heads!!!!

I am thinking of doing a diary on here. I really can't afford for this to carry on but I am hoping this will be 'gentler' than controlled crying. I haven't bought the airbed yet, wanna go halves? .

Looking at your profile our kids are the same age too

AR you have my sympathies XX....give that DH of yours a big kick up the arse!!!!

Can you try leaving a beaker of water (or juice) in the bed for him? At 2 waking for milk is most likely to be habit rather than need, his bodies just got used to having the sugar boost in the middle of the night. I know several people who've had this and got through it by gradually watering down the milk til bub just stopped waking for it.

TBH I'd be very cautious about moving in with them, you might be replacing reliance on the milk with reliance on you to resettle in the might.

DS was/ is a lousy sleeper and eats like the proverbial horse. He exercises loads too. Some kids just aren't very good at it - sleep that is. If it makes you feel any better, mine suddenly improved at about 2.5 - ie going from waking five times a night to only twice...

On my 3rd night of not offering replacement to evening meal aswell as not giving ds milk in the night, he didnt wake last night which was a result but we will see what happens tonight, not holding my breath as he has not had anything to eat since lunch at 12pm.

I feel so bad doing this he must be sooo hungry, but I dont no what else to try food wise. I made hime a chicken casserole and mashed potato for his tea he flat refused to even try it!!

I am not so sure that sleep is very related to food as they get older. DD (22mo) is not a great eater. Sometimes she will eat a lot but other times especially if ill literally refuse to touch anything. Tonight she has gone to bed with nothing at all as she just had no interest in the shepherds pie I had lovingly made and even refused yoghurt and fruit. I used to worry that she would wake hungry but it never happens she usually sleeps till 6.30 or 7 whether she's eaten or not. She does have milk before bed but no biscuit or anything as I didn't want her to get the idea that you can get a biscuit if you refuse dinner. I've got more used now to the idea that it doesn't matter about one specific meal or even one or two bad days as they will always make up for it in the end.

no link at all - is illogical theory that gets bandied about

DS1 poor eater excellent sleeper DS2 excellent eater poor sleeper.

I do think that sleep can be worse if hungry though.

You mention your DS would happily eat chips if you let him. Would it be worth letting him have chips for supper for a few nights/ a week as a test to see if it helps improve things and kick starts a new routine. A very personal thing but I don't think in the over all scheme of things a few suppers of chips will do much harm. If it works you could slowly reduce the chips and introduce other stuff until its a normal supper.

I ended up fitting a stairgate to DS2's room and doing controlled crying (very successful after just three nights) but thats another story.

Well he had is two year check with the HY and her advice was to put him back on formula suitable for his age as he wont be getting enough iron - urm yes I dont think that will be happening here!! that seems like a backwards step to me and bears no relevance to his sleeping or eating! I am sure he is not anaemic as he has endless energy!

Just parked that info in the usual place for HV comments - shame really as she is a lovely lady!!

He did not sleep any better last night, but woke earlier and I settled him back very quickly for another hour!! We are away this weekend for a few days, so will be more firm on our retun....she says!!

Andy, no, sadly no link at all!

Good luck with sleep training. I had v good experience with CC with DS1, who cried 17 min the first night, 10 min the second night, and slept through since - weeell, sl exaggeration: slept through if not teething, being ill, having bad dream. He is now almost 6 yrs .
My other 2 have been good sleepers, all on their own, nothing I did.
I sometimes wonder whether I actually disturbed DS1 by offering him more feeds in the middle of night, IYKWIM?

Good luck anyway .

My 18mo DS is just like this. We have seen the Sleep Clinic HV today, who has been trying to help us!

She has given us a really good strategy for settling him (that doesn't involve leaving him to cry) - you have to keep kissing them...hundreds of times!!! We have only been doing it since Friday night, but already DS2 is settling to sleep much faster and is no longer coming into our bed during the night.

He still wakes up at around 5.30am for milk from me though.....so our next task is a food diary to go with the sleep diary to see if there really is a link.

If you are interested in trying the approach we are using, I can post the details we were given for you...it really is MUCH less horrific (for everyone) than attempting controlled crying!

Washasaurus - would be interested to see the info you were given - like the idea of kissing them until they go to sleep - I am sure DS would end up giggling tho!

My 17mo DS2 is good eater, settles to sleep okay, but wakes anywhere between 1.30 and 4am and ends up in our bed. DH and I take it in turns to sleep with him, with the other one getting in with DS1, 11yo, as DS2 is such a wriggler.
I cant remember the last time I went to sleep and woke up with just me and my husband in the bed!!
Very interested in washersaurus info, although I have tried hugging DS2 or patting his tummy etc and been slapped in the face in frustration for my trouble!
I so want him to sleep all night on his own, I wouldnt mind the odd time popping in to cover him up or whatever, but the endless screaming if he doesnt get in our bed is pure hell, and I dont think I have the willpower to wait it out in the middle of the night when Im shattered.
Will put this thread on watch.

JUst to add my two'pen'th, not that it will probably help...

My DD was a terrific sleeper, from the age of 3 months to 8 months, through the noght. However, during this time she ate (and drank) bugger all, and plummeted off the bottom of the charts.

By 8/9 months we'd got her eating properly, and her weight was back up but her sleeping had deteriortaed to the point was bloody awful - culminating at this Christmas, (13 months old) when she ate everything that wasn't nailed down, but was waking every 45 minutes... .

So in our case, er, an inverse link?! .

We (I) ended up doing PU/PD. Very successful actually - things by no means perfect, but much, much better and completely manageable. It was a lot less traumatic/lengthy/difficult than I expected too - my DD very strong willed and I thought I'd have a long fight on my hands, but she seemed to get the message pretty quickly, and with really very little crying...

This probably doesn't help though, sorry...

db
xx

Right here goes....

This is taken from a Health Visitor article, called 'Peace at last: a model of sleep management for parents'

"The key to helping the child learn these new sleep associated behaviours is for the parent to provide support, but not attention. The parent should be advised to follow the normal bedtime routine, then at the very end, kiss the child goodnight and promise to 'come back in a minute to give a kiss'. However, they should actually return in seconds. They should move just a little and then give another kiss, then a little more, then another kiss, then occupy themselves - e.g putting away some clothes in the drawer - and give another kiss.

Then out and back for another kiss, and so on. The contract is: in bed, head on pillow, then a goodnight kiss, but no more chatter, no more cuddles, no more stories, play or drinks; just kisses until the child is asleep.

This may take 300 kisses and three hours on the first night, but it should be slightly less on the second night, then less on the third and fourth nights. Watch out for the fifth night, this is often the test night and may be as bad as the first. Once past the 'test night' by the sixth and seventh nights the new learning is usually secured."

We are using this routine for initial getting off to sleep and for night wakings - the advice we were given was to only leave 30seconds/1 min if leaving the room and returning at regular intervals.

As I said, it is early days for us, and DS2 is still waking several times in the night, but the time it is taking to resettle him is already drastically reduced by using this approach. However, it isn't working for me - only DH is currently able to settle him (DS2 has severe separation anxiety with me) and the temptation to try for milk from me at night is a problem too.

I wish you all luck, and if anyone else has any other advice, I have my notebook at the ready

Oh, I should also add that DH has found it really helps if he hums/sings quietly as he does this, especially as he leaves the room, so that DS2 can still hear that he is around, even if he can't see him.

DH is currently favouring the theme tune to 'Button Moon'

Similar situation to us. DD drank 2 8oz bottles before bed and then another in the night.

We found it was a viscous circle, too much milk at night, therefore not enough food in the day, therefore so hungry at night and then too much milk. Alsol, the continual waking and wanting milk has led us to desperation and several threads here myself. I will try to locate one as I had some good advice there, as well as what you have already been told on this thread.

In the end, I spent several middle of the night time periods refusing milk no matter how she cried. It was heartbreaking, but it had to be done. The second night, after a great suggestion to perhaps explain it to her, that she should not drink milk as it will make her wet the bed (she was filling her nappy so it soaked her and the bed), she seemed to understand, and although she still wakes 3/5 nights now she will ask for milk but not get upset when it is refused, and now sleeps some nights through.

This has only been in the last week or so, and her food intake has I would say doubled. She ate ok but we never felt it enough. Now, the viscous circle appears to be broken, she eats plenty at tea time, and then pudding of some kind, so wants less milk before bed, and it fills her through the night. Her nappies are less wet too.