My two step sons aged 10 and 12 seem to hate each other :( Bit of a long post sorry!

[SammyK]

I have two step sons, who me and DP see a lot of, oldest is 12 (black belt in karate, very confident, street wise, etc) and younger dss is 11 end of feb (he is and has always been much more withdrawn, lacks confidence, tantrums etc).

I have always shown concern that they are very competetive with each other, for example they would be encouraged to compete even as toddlers, and would race their food (really fast so almost sick), and even at 3 and 4 years old when I met DP they would give each other black eyes in fights.

Trouble is they are now older and stronger, and it seems to be getting worse not better. Mum is often calling DP up and having all 3 of them (mum and two sons) on the phone shouting and crying. We think eldests is testosterone related, but the worry is he is a black belt who cannot walk away / control his temper when youngest winds him up.

The other day youngest spat in oldest's tea, so eldest ran at him with his knife! DP then gets hysterical phone call whilst at work 30 miles away.

It is frustrating as we cannot siggest things to their mum or she shouts/get defensive/becomes awkward about access. Havig them a couple of overnights a week we cannot do a lot.

It is very frustrating and worrying so I thought I would see what MN had to suggest.

I am also worried about youngest dss. He has always been very withdrawn, sulky, tantrummy, resists physical affection (even cuddles, from anyone), is behind in reading and wiritng (possible dyslexia), very sad, and is also quite hostile to our youngest DS, but will not admit it (though me and DP have both heard him doing so). I think he may be jealous of eldest and youngest, as they are both very big, loud, charming types, whereas he is more reserved and shy.

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I can only come at this from being the child of a divorce, but didn't want to leave this unanswered.

I think quite a bit of this must come from them being encouraged to compete (why? and who did this?), which is something that can be tackled.

But one thing that does strike me is that being the child of a divorce, your world is very insecure, and you can't rely on anyone. So one consequence of this is that you can't get angry with your mother or father, in case they leave you. So I wonder whether some of this fighting is an outlet for a huge reservoir of anger that they may have, and which can't be expressed in any other way.

So what I would suggest - and this will be hard to do and will take forever - is for your DP to try and a) reassure them and b) get them to express their inner feelings more.

It also sounds like they do it to get attention - and it works. IS there any way that you can all 3 of you agree an approach (go to room, lose privileges, whatever) which can just be enforced without the whole event turning into an hysterical drama?

Just reinforce how important brothers should be to each other as much as you can.

sounds like a sad situation but not uncommon.

In your situation I think I would look for professional psychological help for both of them. I feel so sorry for their mother having to deal with such difficult behaviour.

The youngest one is obviously suffering from
terrible low self esteem.

I really think they need to see a psychologist.

It probably wont help at the moment but my DH is one of 4 boys (he is the oldest) and they didnt get on when young. 1 very hyper and used to rule the roost and bully DH and not let the others play with him. DH didnt care though, is a nerd and just wanted to read his books.

But now 4 closer brothers you couldnt meet, they are still all very different ( I got the pick of the bunch ) but it's great seeing them together and how well they get on.

Obviously there needs to be some sort of control, re spitting and knives which could get out of hand, but and I dont mean to belittle the situation, boys will be boys?

So relieved to see some replies! Thanks

Will go through and answer what questions I can... Can I please point out tho that as a stepmum on here I am very wary to do so. I am not judging her parenting, or slagging her off here, I am statingfacts to show yuo a picture of their family unit at mums house.

he competitiveness, I think in some ways was from their mum (on her own with two children) trying to get them to co-operate so getting shoes on would be a race, eating food would be a race. However, it was done in a negatative way, to see who would win. Not 'haven't you both done well', or aren't you both fast', but hurry up Y, X is winning you.

Their mum also has phases where one will openly be favourite, it was eldest for years but as he is now getting older and more independent, she has moved to younger one, and is taking more of an interest in him.

she is shouty and swears, and will call them 'f@*ing geek/idiot',

I am worried to say more as I am worried I will get slated for slagging their mum off

Hi Sammy, I'm sorry you feel so nervous about posting as a stepmum.

I do understand, dsd and her siblings are like this, but the others are dh's so it's only dsd that comes here. We had a phone call on Christmas Eve from dsd who wanted to come to us early, it turned out she was in trouble as she'd been fighting with her sister and had had her in a headlock.

It is really difficult when you see them so little, and approaching this in a united front with her mum will only be possible if she will let you without getting defensive. Plus it may not be that easy if you have different opinions about what is acceptable behaviour and sanctions, etc.

Is there anyway next time their mum rings when something's kicked off that you suggest you all meet away from the children to have a chat about things? Or do you think she wouldn't be receptive to that?

Family therapy, I'm afraid. Ideally for all three ... or all four? with your DH? It doesn't sound like he's contributing to the problem, but if he went, then it wouldn't look like you were demonising her?

Hi I'm back!

Both DSS made excuses not to come, youngest admitted it was becouse he knew his dad would want to have a word with him about his behaviour. DP is going round on Tuesday evening to their mum's house to present a united front and have a chat with them.

Their behaviour at ours is much more toned down, and if they do misbehave (my big rules are that violence and swearing are absolute no nos), they get no treats, and no Xbox time. Not sure how their behaviour is snactioned at home TBH. Their mum had said to DP yesterday that she is ignoring the bad behaviour (a new tactic) and that it is really winding the older one up that she is not reacting.

How can they access family therapy? Who do you go through for things like that? I remember my youngest sister going to a counselling session at Barnados, is it these kinds of organisations?

I really appreciate other people's viewpoints on this, so thanks everyone for replying.

Hmm, to find a family therapist ... is money tight? If so, definately start with your GP. If you think paying for it is possible, then I'd find people seeing good therapists in your neck of the woods (where are you?) and get a recommendation.

Ah, the Association for Family Therapy explain how to find someone here.

Thanks NQC will look into it

I would agree with the other posters. This is potentially much too big a problem to cope with alone. A GP referral to the local child psychiatric team is probably called for. This sounds more ominous than it is - you will end up seeing a special doctor who will be able to point you all in the direction of group parenting sessions tailored for this sort of problem, whilst maybe talking to the boys as well seperately. They sound like very unhappy children who need a bit of professional TLC at a difficult point in their development.

In the meantime, the Triple P parenting programme and workbooks might help.

Triple P

It is a very frustrating situation as far as implementing these things, as their mum is happy for us to step in when thigs are BAD, but does not want any input from us in terms of advice, ideas, etc.

I agree that this needs outside help, simply because relations are strained. We all get on if we follow the mum's lead. She dictates when DP sees the boys, and will not enter into two way conversations. She is very shouty and defensive. I'm not sure ow we can approach mum regarding going for a referra; or outside help as she will take this is a personal attck on her parenting.

Bugger.

You may have to just brace yourselves and do it for the sake of the kids.