Any successful Baby Whisperers care to share some tips? (long post!)

[pookamoo]

We are trying the BW with dd who is 8 weeks old.
It looks to me that the advice given in the book fits with our attitude towards "routines" i.e. that it seems to be more about pattern than routine. DD had already put herself into a 3 hour (ish) feeding pattern, which is what Tracy Hogg suggests at this age, but she (dd) is not keen on the sleep part and consequently overtired and hard to settle. For the past five days she had a nap in the morning starting some time between 9 and 10. Today she just went into meltdown, skipped the sleep and is round to feeding again.
My problem is that I am confused about pick-up-put-down in situations where baby is over stimulated. Not that we get much put-down because she doesn't really get calm enough to put her down when she's overtired, just moving position sets her off.
She'll sleep after this feed, because we have to go out and she usually sleeps in the car, pram or sling. But then it will be feed time, and we will be back to square one!
Any tips?

bump?

Pookamoo. I did get the book when our DD was about 3 months old (she is now 3 1/2 years old), and I have to say that I did try the sleep routines and it was quite unsuccessful! The book doesn't take account of what you have done with the baby before the nap/sleep/milk etc. and we tend to over stimulate the babies! Then when DD was 4 months old, it is when i tried a bit harder with the routine. And then you think you have got it and the baby has growth spurts!!! Personally at 8 weeks old, your baby doesn't need a routine yet. She is so little, don't over stimulate her too much and remember that only a little play will make her very tired! Good luck and enjoy this very tender age

i did the baby whisperer with mine and when they are under 4 months its best to use the sssh pat method rather than pupd what i did was do the set the scene ie take them upstairs to the quiet swaddle them and settle them buy putting them on your shoulder and sushing them while patting their backs this did work but does take some perseverance. but what i also have found is some days they take naps well and others not well so just go with the flow i found getting up at the same time every day helps as naturally they feed and sleep at the same time. Mine never were able to stay awake as long as she suggested so i just used her routines as a rough guide its gets easier as they are a bit older too as you get more confident yourself.

Hi,
I followed the BW (well mostly!) for both my boys (youngest is now 7months). I found that the pattern that they got used to worked really well in that they never expected to fall asleep feeding, and it suited me to have a routine but not a rigid schedule. Like you I found they didn't sleep or stay awake quite as they should according to the book in the early days but it worked out over the first few months (give or take a growth spurt etc!). Plus sometimes they did need a sleep pretty quick after a feed and then were awake more before the next one. I remember just trying to keep to it but also go with the flow a little (if that makes sense?). It did sort itself and ds1&2 found their own way with it.

With ds1 we swaddled (winter baby who couldn't sleep with his arms loose at all). Ds2 would NOT be swaddled no matter what but was calmer by nature and gradually learnt to drop off to sleep on his own if I set the 'mood'! Bonus was we learnt the hard way with ds1 who we were still rocking to sleep at 6months +. Must confess I couldn't get pupd to work on ds1 but after 12 min controlled crying at 6-7 months old he put himself to sleep and has done ever since (now 3.5)! I think he was just enjoying the extra cuddle . . .

Anyway, just wanted to say the easy routine worked for us and is flexible enough too. Definitely easier when they get a little older and a bit more settled. And the dream feed worked brilliantly for us once they were in fairly set stable routines (but they're all different of course!).

Good luck

Meant to also say when they refused to sleep at all I used to take them for a walk (or drive if I couldn't face the weather)etc. This was more for my sanity though than trying to make routine work!

We've been using the BW routine since my ds (now 5.5 months) was about 8 weeks old. Quickly rejected Gina Ford as too rigid - I'm quite a perfectionist in life and so felt like I was failing when we couldn't stick to the routines and would get quite stressed about it! BW seems like a nice compromise between some structure but a bit more laid back with no timetable to get me all stressed.

We have varying success. I think in general ds has been happy for having some predictability in his life. We struggled most with the naps as he also had a tendency to get overtired or not be tired at the right times. We use the shhh/pat and now a bit more pick up put down - but still often lots of crying especially when he was little (much better now) which I now see a something he has to do sometimes to wind down if he is really tired or overstimulated. Had a week and a half of sleeping through from 11pm to 7am but then we moved house and it's never been the same since. Saying that he's not a bad sleeper and can now generally self-settle which I think the routine has helped. Also it helped me to guess more accurately why he was crying and respond appropriately.

So like everyone else I would say that sometimes you have to follow their cues even if the routine goes a bit squiffy. The main thing that I kept to was the order eat, play, sleep and the spacing between feeds (although sometimes difficult when you are not sure is they are having a growth spurt). He always seemed to need less time sleeping the day than she advises.

This has turned into a massive post - sorry. I think what I am trying to say is that we found BW useful but did not stick to the letter.

Hope this helps.

We've recently started to use the BW's pupd methods on DD (9mo) so have no tips to impart... but there is a BW website... I think it's something like babywhisperer.com. It has a forum which separates out into the various parts of the EASY routine/pattern and I've found it quite useful on the sleep side. Worth a look?

Like someone else said, pu/pd is meant for older babies. What are you doing at the moment to get her to sleep? I think everyone finds it hard at first to teach them to sleep, but we cheated a bit by using car/pushchair for a lot of his naps at first(can also get them to sleep in the pushchair and then park them up in it if you have somewhere suitable to leave it and you don't feel like a long walk). What helped us loads though was when we realised our DS was a very "sucky" baby and gave him a dummy, that really helped him get to sleep in his crib!
Agree with you that it's not so much a routine as a pattern, and you can flex it around quite a bit - that's what we liked about it too!

Thanks everyone!
mynameis [I love the Princess Bride, by the way!!] that is exactly the problem - we don't really know what to do to get her to sleep! She will fall asleep in our arms (eventually) and for the last four days in a row but not today, she fell asleep in her bouncy chair in the mornings.

The thing is she never seems to nap at all and will stay awake all day if we are at home from 10am if she does have a nap until about 7pm when she gets cranky. DH comes home and he usually gives her a cuddle, so she'll drop off but be awake for a feed about 20 minutes later. After that feed even if it's in the dark and quiet she thinks its playtime and has a really wakeful session between 9.30 and 11!

She doesn't seem to like being cuddled "facing inwards" and in fact that enrages her even more - we have to cuddle her either in the tiger in a tree position or facing away from us. In fact the only time she will face in for a cuddle is when she is actually feeding. I know this means she is continually being stimulated unfortunately.

She is a very sucky baby and she does have a dummy at night time, although she isn't interested in it in the day. She fights her way out of a swaddle and as she seems to be finding her hands to suck, I don't mind not swaddling her although I can see she sometimes gets startled by her flailing arms.

I don't want to force her into a routine really, I would just like to work with her patterns and see if we can get there eventually. But I would really like to get her to "go down" for a nap or for a bed time... some time before 1am!

i just started mine on a bit of a routine when they were 8-10 weeks old and they would fall asleep on their bouncy chairs which was fine but i felt they were better in the cot or pram
if i was struggling they would sleep well in there and often i take them out at nap time so i dont go totally insane myself as long as they get enough sleep in the day they will be fine and some babies dont need long naps
i thinks books are helpful but it is tempting to get stressed if yours do not fall into the routines
also my boy hated being cuddled into me at that age too must just be a stage!

I've only done pick up put down from the book which worked very well but DD was 5 months when we did it.

8 weeks is far too young for PUPD (if I'm honest I think it's too young for a strict routine too).

I think TH recommends PUPD from 4 months.

I gave up on the pupd today anyway as I came to the same conclusion that she's too young for it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one KJ I was taking it a bit personally! Well, not really, but a bit sad that she doesn't want cuddles!

I'm not going to have a strict routine at all just yet, I just would like to get a "bedtime" routine going - not at any specific time, just a few things like my picking up on her being tired before she has a complete paddy, which isn't good for her or for me, especially when I was up for the first feed at 5, not looking forward to her refusing to go down until 2am!

This evening she fed from 6.30 until 7.25, then played on her mat for a little while. I had intended to bath her, but she yawned a couple of times so I took her up to her room, top and tailed her while chatting all the time and she stayed calm. Into her sleepsuit and now she's quietly in her moses basket with her dummy. Maybe she will sleep, maybe she won't... we'll see!

I followed some of the BW routines for DD from about 5 months and they worked well. When DS was born I thought I'd go for the methods pretty much straight away but soon abandoned that idea as he is far too young (he's 10 weeks now) and I have reverted back to going with the flow. Might try them later if we have any sleep problems but he is settling himself fairly well in the evenings mainly because I've been forced to leave him to it sometimes whilst I sort out DD.

It really is the settling thing that I was looking for help with. In the evenings she's not too bad, but during the day it's hard to get her to "switch off" unless we carry her, and I would really like to encourage her to settle herself, especially as she is starting to find her fingers to suck.

PUPD is not aimed at babies until they're older... the sssshhhhing is aimed at this age. That said, I didn't worry about the sleeps during the day, but was quite strict about the nightime sleeps. It worked for us!

Your daughter is too young for PUPD, she needs shush/pat, TH states that the shush/pat calms them down as they can't concentrate on too many things, it worked a treat for us! BW recommends PU/PD when they are older?

I used BW from birth on my daughter who is now 18 months and I absolutely swear by it, she was in brilliant routine by about 7/8 weeks, you have to recognise the cues for tiredness, I found this quite difficult at first but you will work it out eventually!

I used to put her moses basket in her cot and had black out curtains and she soon got used to this, have you thought about doing this? Only problem now is she will only nap in her cot!!!

8 weeks is still very young too, maybe she needs a little more time for a routine?

Stick with it though, you won't be disappointed with TH recommendations, I think her book is brilliant!

another thing that worked for me which TH recomended was getting up at the same time each day and then they really seem to sleep eat at quite similar times im getting like karamazov and chilling about daytime sleeps as long and being reall strict about nightimte though although yesterday was a bad day and had to resort to taking them out in the buggy!!!

I did find as I read through the book that we were already doing a lot of the things she suggested. I have started to notice things she does when she's getting tired, which is the main thing, I think - if I can put her in her moses basket or cot while she's still happy, she's far easier to settle. She's had three sleeps today, although only one was in her bed - one was in the pram as we were out for lunch with our NCT group, and this evening she got really cranky and DH settled her to sleep on his lap before transferring her to the pram top. She will wake up again for a feed quite soon I think, which will be the last one before bedtime.
Who knows what will happen tomorrow, every day is different!!

pookmoo, I love the BW and would use her books again with a second DC, whenever that may be. However I found pick up/ put down to be very tricky with a young baby. If I'm honest I can't remember what I tried at this age - all I recall is having lots of sleep probs for many months!

At 8 weeks try not to worry too much about getting her into patterns because she will change so much that once you establish a pattern she'll slip out of it before you know it.

Sorry, this is not very helpful, is it?

It's all helpful! But as I said, I gave up on PUPD already... although I do pick her up when she's upset, and put her down when she's ok!
She slept from 11pm til 3am last night, having fed for an hour from 9 til 10. The long feed is not unusual for her, but the sleeping is great!
But she's a bit snotty this morning and quite snuffly. Lots of extra feeds and cuddles for her today (but Iwould like to get out of my pyjamas if I can at some point!)

Just a thought but could you try sitting with her in her room set up for nap time just to get her used to quiet time at the time you think she should be tired? With ds1 we did have to take him away from everything if he was overtired as nothing would get him to nap then and I had trouble spotting when he was tired. SOmetimes we did have to put on very calming music too (not sure if it was for me or him ). Eventually he settled more (took time though) and I got used to his tired signals (only a few mintues though before he went into overtired mode!). Became a ritual of swaddling, patting, etc and to be honest in the end I used to save the effort for nighttime and just go out most days - not ideal!

ds2 needed lively music to cut through his overtiredness. Guess they are all different and he probably needed it to drown out ds1's noise!

Sorry about the babble. Just trying to say you could either try and catch her early and take her away from all activity or just try to introduce a feel for quiet time that may help with routine as she gets older?

Hiya,
Have you got just the first Baby Whisperer book or the big follow-up one 'The BW solves all your problems by helping you to ask the right questions'. That's the one you need for practically applying TH's ideas - loads of trouble shooting in there and lots more detail. Like others have said, PU/PD not suitable for babies under three months. Lots of her ideas really do work - I have two settled LOs who sleep well (well, DS, 5mo and touchy, is getting there but DD, 2.6, and textbook, is a total BW baby) and have a good consistent pattern to their days. Daytime naps especially do take a long time to get sorted IME, but keep at it if it's important for you. Good luck!

I followed GF loosely. I tweaked it here and there mainly following her feed routines and the sleep pattern just fell in line with it. Maybe as your baby is still so young you could give both GF and BW a go see which suits you best?
Don't try to follow any book to the letter....there is no book that will suit all babies, so don't beat self up if it doesn't go exactly to plan. I used to get quite wound up over it (looking back I was pathetic). I am very organised person so really wanted a routine to work and be the same every day so I used to get quite upset if something went wrong. Now DS is 21 months and I wish I had been more relaxed and enjoyed him more when tiny! (time for baby number 2???) Maybe not!

Oh and I used to wake DS up to feed him! (some people will strongly disagree with waking a feeding baby! but it worked a treat for me. I know we are ultimately doing what it right for baby, but it does help if it works for you too. A tired and grumpy mummy will make same in baby x

waking a sleeping baby even LOL