Dad - struggling with discipline

[Graciesdad]

My daughter was 3 in November, and most of the time she is extremely well behaved. However she is occassionally quite disobedient and simply will not do as I ask.

My wife deals with this in many ways, mostly distraction techniques, however I feel that at some point she needs to learn the basic lesson that she should do what we say. I'm told she is very well behaved and obedient at nursery, so why can't be the same at home? I feel we have not set the ground rules strongly enough.

My wife says I'm creating conflict by getting upset when Grace won't do as I ask, however I feel we have simply avoided the issue by refusing to enforce consequences if she won't do something we ask her too. My wife says she too young to understand, but I disagree.

This is a perfect example. This morning while getting ready for nursery she wanted to put her snow white dress on. I said no and explained that we had to leave the house soon to go nursery. She walked away, went to her bedroom with her dress and started to put her dress on. I feel this is unacceptable behaviour, my wife less so. To me it's very black and white (typical male). I asked her not to do something and she ignored me - there should be some form discipline, even if it's just a chat to explain that she has done wrong. I feel we should do this constantly until her behaviour starts to change. It might be painful in the short term, but I feel it would be beneficial in the long term.
This causes a great deal of tension between my wife and I.

Am I over-reacting?

Help

Grace's Dad

I don't think 3 is too young to understand simply explanations. Remembering them and being able to put them into practice are another matter but I don't think it would be too much to ask to say 'You can't wear your dress because you have to wear your uniform today to go to nursery and I need you to hurry up so we won't be late.'

Developmentally 3 is too young to have a 'theory of mind', basically the ability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and see things from another's point of view. She won't understand why it is important to you not to be late, or whatever.

That tends to develop around the age of 5ish. Like most things it won't be something she will be able to consistently do immediately but you will ay notice a little more consideration then

Develop some patience if you can, as much for your sake as your DD's. I don't think a lack of it is necessarily a male thing, though. My DH is probably more patient than me but he is with everything and was before the children were born. I don't think it is necessarily to with gender at all.

simple not simply....obviously.

It is possible to be strict (i.e.) get your way without being shocked at the child trying to get round you. I am probably stricter than dh, in the sense of getting my own way- but I am also far less surprised when they do play up.

They are not necessarily too young to understand 'you need to put on your uniform'- but that doesn't mean they are old enough to want to comply

Toddlers are selfish and impulsive and short-sighted; they live in the moment and want their way now. Of course, they can't always have it, but that won't stop them from wanting it.

Besides, if she always did as told with no questions asked- how much would she be learning about the world?

Just a few points:

From experience, my dcs are better behaved in nursery/school in ways they would never replicate at home. Normal. Shows they know who loves them unconditionally and are testing boundaries in a safe environment.

My dd 5.4 knows what she has to do (ie get into her uniform in the morning) but still find it hard to comply. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Your dd will know what she is expected to do (because she does it at nursery) whether or not you are consistent. Therefore, you do not have to be consistent military-style just to get her to do something.

What are parents for but to cut our children some loving slack every now and then. I don't think they get confused. They are better prepared for our unpredictable behaviour than we give them credit for.

My dh is much more creative at distraction and using humour, to encourage compliance, than I am. Perhaps because he does not have to get dd dressed every morning. I am sick to the back teeth of whinging and moaning and clamp down far too quickly.

I don't think that it is a Mum/Dad difference, more the difference between the principle carer who spends more time with the DC. (Assuming that your wife is SAHM or parttime WOHM like myself)

We find that it takes DH a bit longer to recognise and understand the changes in the DC's behaviour and to find the best way of dealing with this. If you are dealing with 4 temper tantrums a day then you find ways of getting around your DD quicker than if you only have one tantrum a day to deal with.

A huge factor for us was also our own upbringing. DH's father was very strict, a "children should be seen and not heard" kind of parent. Mine were more relaxed and accepted that their children had their own personalities. DH found it difficult when we had DD to overcome the instinct to be strict. If you are taught as a child that children should obey their parents then it is difficult to completely lay that aside, even if you don't agree wtih the theory, iyswim.

MmeLindt,

Thanks.

This rings so many bells with my situation. That's definitely why I struggle.
However my reasons may be different to my father's. It's not a case of 'children being seen and not heard', I'm just completely paranoid that we will raise a monster. I'm acutely aware that at times I over-react, usually when I'm tired and stressed myself.

Thanks. You've all managed to convince I need to try and relax more.

I'm still a bit unsure about what to let go and what not to. Distraction isn't always convenient and sometimes not applicable.

Drawing the line is difficult. However once the line is drawn, asking her to do (or not do) something twice feels ok, three or four times just doesn't feel right. It feels like we're doing something wrong.

However, the message seems unanimous.Don't expect too much from her too early.

I think you can put this raising-a-monster idea right out of your head. Your dd sounds lovely, with just the right amount of spiritedness for her age. And she behaves at nursery, which is a good sign. You don't want to be raising a little robot either, without the capacity to think for herself, do you?

My dd was a very spirited child, who tantrummed most days at this age and was frequently questioning my authority ("how do you know? Have you read it in the paper? Have you read it in a book?"). She is now 12 and has never been in trouble at school or anywhere else, other people frequently comment on what a lovely person she is. She still has a mind of her own, but she has learnt to express it in socially acceptable ways. And funnily enough, she seems to trust more to my authority now than she did when she was 2. Seems to have dawned on her that Mummy actually might know a thing or two.

Save the "no" you must obey me for their vilest behaviour - hitting/hurting others and being willfully destructive (my 3 year old deliberately destroys things belonging to her older sisters to annoy them!)

I had/have this problem with my DD who is also three, getting ready for nursery in the mornings. It actually goes in fits and starts, and tends to be worse when her little brother is teething/playing up - like she's competiting for attention as she is otherwise pretty well behaved.

During these phases I resort to making her get dressed before she has breakfast. This normally helps as DD has a healthy appetite and loves her porridge so it is an excellent carrot to get her going. She also HATES the idea that her teachers will disapprove of her because she is late, so that is often a tactic I use. We don't have issues with WHAT she wants to wear, just her various avoidance tactics on getting dressed full stop (including just running away laughing - annoying, non?).

I can only echo what just about everyone else has said - at this age, it's important to be consistent, but you will risk coming across as too harsh if you just expect a child of 3 (or any child for that matter) to just bend to your will.

Ask yourself this question - when she's 16 years old, and god forbid, ends up in a tricky peer pressure situation - would you want her to maintain some of this "I am my own person with my own ideas" spirit, or be the person who just does what she's told...

I'm not saying that's a green light to let her run wild or have her own way all the time - children THRIVE on boundaries, but distraction methods, bribery (emotional rewards over material ones) and illustrating consequences that will matter to them, are definitely the best way to go.

Also, I find that if I'm getting too stressed, I pause, then try my best to turn the situation into humour, because 3 year olds love nothing better than a good giggle.

E.g. DD will NOT get dressed and is running around house with no clothes on. I start pretending to be very proper person with proper person voice on but times 100 so it's ridiculous, saying "What on EARTH is going to happen if you go to Nursury in the nip?" You will get a "frosty bottom, an ice cube for a nose etc etc" until I get her laughing and on side and then just in a better mood, not so much seeing me as the enemy anymore, and then make a game of putting on her clothes (she responds well to idea that pants can be go faster pants etc).

I know this can be tough when you are knackered and stressed, but is is so much LESS stressful in the long run than locking horns with them every morning.

Good luck

I think if she refuses to do something 3 or 4 times, then it's appropriate to put a consequence into action.

Eg refusing to help tidy up toys, then put a toy on a shelf for a day.

Won't come the table, tell her plainly that's fine, the food will just go in the bin (they move pretty fast with that one).

When it's something that you simply HAVE to have her do, like put her uniform on, and distraction/bribery hasn't worked, you may have to resort to time out or something similar.

I tend to shut the door on DD and tell her not to bother coming and finding me or talking to me until she's ready to do what I asked. So far, she has come round within a non-distastrous time frame...

Time out may not help if you are in a hurry to get to nursery, of course. In this case, I would calmly take the costume off her, and put her uniform on her. (though I would have my doubts about a nursery that made 3-yos wear uniform)

Graciesdad
I think you sound ;like a great Dad and will do the best possible job. You are obviously very open minded. Maybe show this thread to your wife. I would be immensely proud if my dh showed me a thread like this. It will also get you talking.

I would also agree on some steadfast house rules ie. no smacking, no disrespect etc and all the other bits and pieces yoou can deal with in a more imaginaitve manner

I think you need to chill a bit to be honest. the scene you're describing probably goes on in a million houses in the mornings. toddlers and small children do have tantrums, thats what they do..and its a phase they'll all grow out of eventually.

They aren't dogs to be trained to obedience and do as they are told all the time, much as I wish mine would
As has been said, pick your battles. Is it really such a big deal? DS1 is 3 and I find explaining often works well or offering choices.

The difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline teaches a child to replace an old behaviour with a new behaviour ie we dont do that we do this instead. Punishment ie withdrawal of privelleges, time out etc doesnt teach a new behaviour, just stops the old behaviour in the short term.

For example when your DD went upstair and started to put on her dress after you said no. If you were to give her time out, all you are doing is stopping her from doing it.

If you went up and got her and told her what you wanted her to do instead ie come and sit downstairs and watch TV for 5 minutes before nursery (or whatever you wanted her to do), you are showing her how you want her to behave, if you see what i mean

Thanks all. Went through this thread with DOH last night and it precipitated some very useful discussions.

Claw
That is good food for thought.

Good on you, Graciesdad, for taking things so well and using them in a positive way. You will find that your dd changes over the year, but that she will go through many phases of testing her will against yours (ever heard of teenagers? ). Most of the time (not all the time!) you will need to win, but this does not mean that her challenging you is a bad thing. It helps her grow and understand.

Mmelindt - Im a firm believer in changing behaviour, rather than just stopping it. Very much old school, with a mix of Mary Poppins

ps agree with Cory, well done for taking it all in good spirit Graciesdad