What bedtime routine is best for a 2.5 yr old who won't stay in bed? lock in her room, ignore or keep putting back?

[StreetcarNamedDesire]

Hi

We're going through a difficult behavioural patch with DD1 atm, mainly due to jealousy of DD2 (6m) I think.

Am a total routine freak but now that's failing me and I'm questioning whether I'm being too hard on DD1. Bedtimes are starting to get out of control and they've never been an issue before.

(She is in her own bed btw and has been for 3 months)

WE're now resorting to a haphazard combination of rapid returns, ignoring, locking bedroom door shut (for max of 2mins, after 2 put backs and clear warnings). The locked door is final resort and usually works (makes her cry). All the usual stuff about minimal fuss, no conversation etc. Usually she will go to sleep after 2 put backs & door locked (for max 2 mins - it makes her cry but then she stays in bed)

Her behaviour has been really bad this last week (hitting, destructive) and now nothing we're doing works.

She also gets up at least twice a night (wanders into our room but goes back to sleep without a fuss) and now wakes very early 5:30/6am most days. Being up every 2hrs with baby I am struggling.

She used to go to bed easily at 7pm and sleep till 7am at least, was like this since 8 months and never had sleep problems at all. Night waking and bedtime problems have only begun since we introduced a bed (which we only did because she learnt to climb out of cot)

We have also dropped lunchtime sleep as she was fighting it intently and it affected how long it took to get her down at night.

Sorry, I know poeple must get sick of giving the same old advice to this age old problem, but am essentially looking for the definitive answer so we can be consistent at night time. Have no trouble being a disciplinarian (think I am too strict sometimes)

Thanks so much

I hope you've given him a nightlight, fruitstick and don't just leave him in the dark. Or does the dark not bother him? Seems a bit extreme to me.
But then again I wouldn't lock my 2yo in the bedroom on their own soo... maybe it's me who's odd.

My upset 2yo.
I have shut the door once they're asleep.

No he's not afraid of the dark, and actually we make the entire house as dark as possible at bedtime. We have found the only answer is to effectively bore him to sleep, any chink of light and he empties the toybox/bookshelves etc.

I think a stairgate is very different to locking the door (although maybe it's just to make me feel better), and putting him back frequently reassures him that he hasn't been abandoned.

When he was much younger I tried the whole sitting by the bed/stroking/patting etc and eventually realised he just needed to be left the hell alone to go to sleep!

Depending on the level of understanding (2.5 is still young) have you tried putting her to bed and saying "i'll be back in aminute to check on you and make sure you are stiil comfy" go back in 5 minutes-if she is still in bed say "well done, you still look very comfy" give a kiss and repeat. This worked well for my daughter as generally you will be praising her the entire time while reassuring her. It takes out the screaming, shouting, crying scenario. I definitely think you need to be consistent. I did read/hear somewhere that a sleep problem will take between 3 and 7 nights to break if you are being consistent. Good Luck

techpep yes, have tried this. It hasn't worked for us because DD gets out of bed immediately - within a few minutes of us leaving her.

juuule I would love it if your approach worked for us. The last few months have worked well because she always wanted the door open (with hall light on) so just the threat of closing the door if she got up would be enough to keep her there.

Now it isn't, and I don't like closing the door either - so I think stairgate is a good compromise.

Also if lights are on she gets a second wind and starts singing.

I couldn't get in bed with her because a. it's a teeny childs bed with a rail and b. because we've never done this before, would feel like we're going backwards. I have before now sat and cuddled her for 10 mins in rocking chair and put her to bed sleepy, but hey presto, 2 mins later and she's up. So doesn't achieve anything imo.

It's a hard balance between being caring and loving because she is only 2.5, and letting her dictate everything. I don't know where the line is anymore!

Could I also ask - do many of you use stairgate in the mornings to reinforce an 'acceptable' getting up time? As I said with DD1 it can be anything from 5:30 onwards, and if we don't take her downstairs straight away for breakfast she has a tantrum. My mum thinks she is getting too used to having her own way. But then again my mum keeps telling me to smack her for bad behaviour which I wouldn't be comfortable with.. [hmmm]

is she demanding to go downstairs because she's hungry? Maybe a cereal bar which you could take up to bed with you would give you another 30 mins while she plays in her room?
just an idea, would make no difference to ds he just wants to be up and about when he wakes up

No, we didn't use a stairgate for that. Usually one of us would get up with the wide awake early riser.

As regards getting into the bed with her, I wouldn't see that as a backward step necessarily. We've done this for a while and crept back into our own bed once child is asleep. Did it in a short bed for one of them Gives you cramp sometimes and makes you appreciate your own bed

In the end you have to find what works for you and your family giving you all optimum rest.
Hope some of the suggestions on here are helpful for you.

shoppingbags I thought that, but she often just stands by our bed in silence for a few minutes (then starts hitting DP with alarm clock.

The tantrum only begins if we encourage her to get in with us for a few more minutes sleep, or try to put her back in her bed.

I would have thought if it was hunger it would be immediate. ~It feels like more of a control issue now - and she really is in control

Thanks juuule x

I must say that after trying out all the "techniques", we have settled on exactly what juuule has described for DD 2.7. We do use a stairgate, but only when she is asleep because she sleepwalks and her door is adjacent to the stairs. Otherwise we will do whatever it takes to help her settle including getting in bed with her. So I will be odd with you juuule. However, I also have one who would still be awake at midnight if she was downstairs!

Mimia, glad I'm not the only one who's odd

As regards the child who is still up at midnight, we found that the upside of that was that when they did go to bed they settled reasonably quickly knowing that everybody was in bed.

Juule, you are definately not odd, for ages dh got into bed with dd1, whilst i took dd2 to our bed until she fell asleep (only took 10 mins). Now we have a routine where dh sits by dd1's bed holding her hand, and it only takes a few minutes for her to get to sleep. Whilst i cuddle dd2 in a chair next to her cot, and now she even asks to get in the cot! I think if they are feeling insecure (with new sibling, house move, nightmares etc), it is good to have a long and comforting routine.

The going back in a minute thing didn't work for us, because dd would scream as soon as she hit the bed, let alone us leave the room!

Sympathies. We are experiencing similar with 2.11 yr old dd, caused by jealousy of 3 mo ds. Shall read your replies with interest later when I have more time.

Oh dear - was hoping to read a brilliant solution that we hadn't thought of, but no such luck. I've been to get a stairgate today, which dh has fixed ready for use tonight. It was 10pm before she went up last night, and even then dh had to sleep in her room. Unfortunately that's often not an option for us, as dh works abroad, so I am on my own with both dc, and obv need to be with 3 month ds rather than nearly 3 year dd.

Those of you who advocate stair gates, do you open them again before you go to bed? From a fire safety pov I should (dd's room is loft conversion, so she is on her own on 2nd floor), but I think she'll be down again during the night if it's open, and I don't know what I should do then.

CSWS - I keep the gate shut until getting up time, but ds1's door is only 1 metre from our own (and next to the stairs).

Honestly don't know what I'd do in your situation. I don't think I'd be happy with keeping it shut all night - depends on whether you'd hear dd if she was upset. Could you put her in another room on the same floor, even if only for a few weeks/months?

No odwam - all our building works last year were to build her a new bedroom, which she is very excited about and wants to take everyone upstairs to show off, so I think there'd be more tantrums if we moved her out again!

Just feeling a bit stressed and upset tonight because I am having the same problems, but reading this had made me feel better ! DD, 2.9 years, was always amazingly good at going to bed - when I had friends or family staying, people would say how good she was, going to bed with no fuss, etc. But this has been gradually changing in the last few weeks. Tonight was really bad - she stayed in bed but was crying and calling for me - would stop when I went in, I would try to reason with her, and then would start up again ! Finally she went to sleep - a combination of being very tired and the promise of stickers ! I really value having time to myself in the evening, so this is very stressful. I am going to try bribery with stickers, and see whether it works ! Will have to find somewhere that sells cheap stickers !!!

Am bookmarking this thread as it seems to be almost identical to our current situation.

DS1 is 2.6 and has suddenly become a nightmare - not so much at bedtime as he settles fine then - but he tends to wake up at 4ish and will not stay in bed. Last night, I was on the landing from 4.45 till 6 doing 'rapid return' - DS1 thought it was some great game so was giggling, doing silly walks etc.

Having read this, there seems to be a common theme which is a new sibling - I am sure that is the case here as DS1 has always slept fantastically well until DS2 came along 8 weeks ago

please tell me you dont really lock your baby in her room

Juule seems to be one of the few on here that is making sense to me....

some of you are talking about threats, ignoring, crying...........

would you treat all children like this?

or just small defenceless ones

I also find it very sad that you lock her in her bedroom, sorry but no wonder she is feeling insecure...

We had similar problems with DS1 (was 2.5) when DS2 was born.
I know he was very upset and jealous so I let him come downstairs after bedtime if he wanted to, sit at the table with me and DH while we had supper, I'd read him a story or two afterwards and he was then happy to go to bed, was usually around 8-8.30 by then.

I think routines are not helpful when you have a young baby and jealous sibling, why not ease up a bit on your DD1 and give her some extra attention and fuss after DD2 is alseep.

In our house 'bedtime' always meant sitting with the los, feeding/reading/chatting/cuddling, until they drifted off.

Sometimes it seemed to take hours, and was shattering, especially when on my own with three as I frequently was-but they never went to sleep crying or anxious, and I have never had to address disturbing behaviour issues - funny that.

I suppose I'm weird too, but I honestly hope my DCs do tha same with theirs - your DCs are not your enemies, they're the ones you love most of all.

ONe thing that worked for us was indeed to de-dramatize the whole situation. Eventually, we got a quiet book routine after the bath and a"treat"! "treat" meant that our DS could go to the playroom and get his favourite toy to sleep with ( and we made him feel we were doing him a huge favour).
The deal was that he could keep the toy in bed only if he stayed there.
I think we got 2 nights when we actually took the toy away and then he stayed in bed!!
Good luck!

I don't agree with locking kids in either, but I do understand people wanting some time for them in the evening. Also a tired child isn't a happy one, so bedtime and getting them to accept it is important in our house.
I decided to have less child care and so more time to be with DS. I don't regret that at all, but it did mean I needed the evenings to work, so DS had to go to bed. We had similar problems to the ones here, so I did a deal with my son. I'd sit on the landing outside his room, so I was very close and he could see me as he drifted off to sleep. If he started talking or messing about, the deal was off and I wouldn't sit there. He soon got into liking the calm of watching me on the laptop working away, and we had peaceful bedtimes again, and I got the time I needed to work. I do think you need to meet them halfway. You can't expect a lo to fit your expectations, but you can persuade them to make life tolerable for all of you.

supadoula, what a brilliant idea. Streetcar, I reckon that's definitely worth a go. Ds responds well to anything he perceives as a treat too eg every night he moans about going up for his bath until I ask him which toy he would like to take upstairs as a special treat. He then gets a toy and runs upstairs happily. Then to get him out of the bath I offer a choice of 2 stories which I can only read while I'm drying him.