Mums of 7/8/9 year old girls: please describe for me the friendships/social behaviour that is typical for girls this age, and how you help your dd navigate through choppy social waters

[Earlybird]

DD is a happy girl, who is turning 8 in a few weeks. As an only child, she is strong willed and perhaps needs to practise the art of compromise with peers a bit more. However, she is kind and sensitive, and would never intentionally exclude anyone or make them feel badly.

Over the past few months she has come home from school almost daily with a different story about friends having arguments, 'breaking up', making a plan to play a game at recess and running off instead with someone else, leaving someone out of a game, etc. Sometimes she is explaining something she has observed, and sometimes she is directly involved.

These conflicts and hurt feelings upset her (perhaps more than 'normal' because she isn't accustomed to dealing with/getting over sibling squabbles at home?). In the past, I've listened sympathetically (but taken it all with a grain of salt) because injustices (real or perceived) could often be exaggerated.

This however, is starting to feel a bit different. Things seem to be shifting from inclusive to exclusive socially. There are now smaller and more selective birthday parties, more playground 'pairing off' rather than playing with whoever is around/in the mood for the game in question, etc. DD reports feeling 'left out' sometimes. There are not as many invitations to birthday parties or for playdates (though girls are happy to come to ours, and I do extend invitations alot to encourage friendships).

I've heard about the tendency of girls to be fickle and mean to each other, but didn't honestly expect it to occur for another few years.

How are friendships evolving for your girls? Is this behaviour fairly typical? I honestly don't know if dd simply needs to 'toughen up' a bit, be more resilient, and not so sensitive - and if so, how does one convey that in terms an 8 year old can understand/implement? I feel concerned for her. Anyone have advice to share that has helped your own dd?

Bumping for you.

I would say this is the worst age. Bit like living in Big Brother or an oldfashioned operatic comedy. All you can do is make soothing noises and try not to remember what has been said from one day to another, because these things shift so quickly. It is part of growing up; all you have to look out of are any signs that your dd is actually being bullied or involved in bullying anyone else. Bullying would be a conspiracy to deliberately get one person excluded from all activities, a consistent campaign of taunting one person (as opposed to sudden spats). Going off with another best friend- however much it hurts- is not bullying. It's early practice for coupledom if you like.

Small selective parties are also normal for this age: the things they start wanting to do are not running around in a church hall and making a lot of noise, but sitting down and watching a video together and talking about it: you can't do that with 30 kids. This is not being mean; it's about their needs changing. (When dh and I celebrate Valentine's Day, we don't do it by renting the community centre and hiring a bouncy castle for all our workmates ).

good post Cory.

Agree with Cory. My dd has just turned 8 and we experience exactly what you describe. Every day is different, some good for her, some bad. She has two brothers, one older, one younger, and is still baffled at the way some of the other girls. Like Cory says, keep an eye out for bullying (great definition btw), but the rest is, I'm afraid to say, normal. They're just trying out different types of power, flexing their social muscles. I'm hoping (desperately) it will settle down soon.

'at the way some of the other girls behave'

Yes, dd1 is almost 8 and htis sounds very similar to her group of friends.

Her school has mixed age classes so she is in with year 3 and 4; this has actually given them all a chance to evolve their friendshiop groups as they are with different children to last year.

I'm glad you posted this Earlybird, I was thinking of starting a similar thread.

My dd is in Yr3 and is experiencing an almost identical situation right now. In her case though there is an element of indirect bullying from one girl though.

Also, at least 3 of her friends have moved away from the school/area in the last year or so, so she has less people to play with too.

Interesting post cory.

Earlybird, reading with interest but not much to add as dd is only 5, but she is already reporting little niggles along these lines.

What gives me a bit of reassurance is that dd has managed to pair up with a 'best friend in the world'. Does your dd have a friend who could be this best friend, so subtly encourage the friendship with playdates. Also, one thing I try to do is to maintain dd's friendships with friends from her old nursery, outside of school basically. This could give your dd some perspective and refuge if things get too intense at the school playground.

Cory's post sounds very sensible.

This is typical at this age. Dd went through it and we had a lot of tears and hurt feelings.

Kidscape gives loads of tips on their children's page. She found this really helpful.

Out of school clubs and activities can really help to build confidence and friendships outside school.

dd is now in year 6, and from being a bit of a shrinking violet, she has learned to stick up for herself, and to grow a thicker skin. Interestingly, she is now extremely popular, having managed to face down a couple of bullies.

Much depends on how good the school is about keeping an eye on things.

The best piece of advice, I think, is to remind our children that they cannot change other people. They can only change themselves. Confidence building and self esteem is really important.

My eldest DD (now 11) went through a horrible phase with her classmates when she was 8/9 that involved daily best friend swapping and even some bullying. It was awful. But the whole business taught her some very valuable lessons about relationships and now I would say that she is a much better friend for it - she is even friends with girls she used to hate even though they are now at different secondary schools.

Such a shame girls have to be so evil to each other to learn these lessons.

We also have phases of this with dd1 (almmost 8). She has a confident (occasionally bossy!) personality and 2 siblings to practice on but she still gets upset by it. It definitely seems to go in waves. The last time she said she wasn;t having a good time at school I thought about talking to the teacher but then it all died down again so I would give them time to sort it out themselves rather than jumping straight in.

I found simply talking to dd about what was going on helpful. She has some very mature insights into why people might be behaving the way they do, what they are feeling etc. It can get quite complicated at this age, lots of power struggles etc - a bit like office politics imo! Not sure whether it helps or not that we live abroad and dd is at international school - on the one hand a good friend might leave but on the other hand it shakes up the cliques a bit.

Also bear exaggeration in mind! dd will come home in a right mood saying it was a terrible day, then you find there was one incident and the rest of the day was fine!

I really sympathise with your dd. We had the exact same thing last year. I thought mine was th eonly one actually. Must be some sort of hormones that kick in at this age!

dd eventually fell out with one girl for good and still has lots of problems with another girl (who punched her in the face last term!). I found the best way for us to deal with it in the end was to widen her social group. Once she had a lot mroe friends and so didn't end up isolated when she had a fight with somebody or other she eventually found it easier to deal with.

I'd keep going wiht the invites, and not worry too much abotu party invites. I think that slows down a bit by this age anyway - children seem to do smaller more intimate affairs rather than inviting half the class.

COuld you maybe find something extra curricualr for her too? dd started girls brigade which is actually in the next town, so she met a whole new bunch of girls which has done wonders for her confidence.

I think eventually they do adapt to the changes, it is jsut a bit of a shock for them at first.

Thanks for responses ladies. It is a huge relief to know that this is 'typical' though certainly doesn't make it any easier for dd.

Will respond properly in a bit - must get dd up and ready for school (we moved to America 17 months ago, so are in completely different time zone). Come to think of it - the move perhaps factors in somewhere too, as dd doesn't have 'old' and established friendships here to fall back on.

Widening the social circle sounds like a good step forward.

I think I've been focussing a bit too much on ds (who started full-time school in October) and just assuming that dd and her friends will carry on as normal.

Does anyone have any tips for dealing wit indirect bullying?

Hi, my DD is not at that stage yet, only 6. I am trying to prepare her by encouraging her to be friends with as many girls and boys including those in the year above INSTEAD of trying to push the best friend angle which personally I recall used to be a lot of the problem when I was at school. If my best friend was sick or went off with someone else, I was then stuck with no-one to play with as I alienated the rest of the class because of the BF.
Just a thought.

Thank you again for the thoughtful responses. It is strangely comforting to know that others experience this, and that it is somehow 'typical'.

As her Mum, it is hard to know how to respond to dd, and what is the best way to react.

Last week, on 2 separate days, dd burst into tears about incidents at school the moment we were alone together after pickup. Other times - at completely random moments - dd will tell me about an upsetting exchange. I don't want to 'fish' for 'bad' news from dd when I ask about her day (and in some way perhaps encourage a 'victim' mentality), but also want to hear about her day, and help her deal with things if I can.

I've been talking to her this week about how it is good to have a circle of friends, so that if one is occupied/moody/unavailable, she has other pals to turn to. Have also talked to her about how she treats other people and how she wants to be treated by others. So, if someone ignores her/doesn't include her/has broken a promise, rather than trailing around after them in a forlorn manner hoping they'll include her/remember their promise - she should simply find someone else to play with or something else to do.

Have used an example of the bee in the garden who flits from flower to flower. If one flower doesn't have nectar, he doesn't hang around feeling upset/waiting for the nectar to come/saying 'but their should be nectar here why isn't there???". The bee simply moves along to find a different flower that can nourish him and give him what he wants. Perhaps simplistic, but also maybe has given her a different way of thinking about things.

I'm a Mum and a teacher. My dd is 10 and still going through it. She is also starting to phyisically change added to the problem. She not very confident but oten comes across as bossy. From what I know of my daughter and through work, generally girls are foul to each other and my daughters shyness, lack of confidence and the age is making this a really dificult time for her. We've had lots of discussions and I think we're starting to come through it. The theatre group has helped alot with the confidence and the learning to give of an I dont care air so they will leave her alone.

Could have been my 8 year old too. She's always been very popular with others, but as she got to 7 she got a little less sensitive about the needs and feelings of others. She's not unkind intentionally or a natural braggard, but she is getting more big headed as she gets older. It's a tricky balance, teaching them to be sure of themselves without bragging about their achievements...but I suspect that's another thread entirely.

DD is struggling with the fact that her best friend wants her to be 'cool' all the time and dd is far from cool. Though young, she knows this. She says 'I'm weird, mommy, and BF wants me to be cool all the time. But if I stop being weird I won't be me anymore'. I think that's pretty healthy, but I know it hurts her to be laughed at by her friends.

I've told her this will happen more and more as she gets older. DD has choices...she can conform, but that will probably make her unhappy if it means not being herself; DD can ignore her friend, but she risks losing her or at least upsetting her, but that's something she may be prepared to do if the friend keeps pushing her; or dd can tell her friend that she doesn't care about being cool...she's happy being who she is. This last one is hard in lots of ways, but is the honest way and therefore probably the best. She just has to live with the consequences of this choice, which means sometimes she'll be upset, excluded, laughed at, etc.

I post on here if things get insane and hope for the best! I also talk to other mums who may be going through similar things and we compare strategies.

Lord only knows, girls aren't easy. I hope your DD manages this situation well and learns and grows from it, because I think this is all part of the growth process. And I suspect, sadly, it'll get harder than this in senior school

Can I recommend the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes" which is all about girl cliques and how to help your daughters navigate through their shark infested waters.

Yes, I've heard that book suggested here before so will look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.

DD does some activities outside school that, in theory, offer exposure to different children from different places. In reality, the children who know each (logically) stick together. Everyone flies in just as class starts, and rushes out the minute class is over - and class time itself is structured with little/no time for social interaction. So, that approach for broadening social circles has so far not been a success.

agre with all that cory has said. And you are spot on to talk about helping your child to be more resilient, bird.

An update: have been talking to dd about that life lesson of who your friends are, how friends are chosen (i.e. how you want to be treated by friends), and what you can/should be able to rely on friends for.

Last week there was a minor disagreement between dd and a classroom acquaintance (X). The other girl upped the stakes dramatically by ending the exchange with 'you should be grateful I invited you to my birthday party' and flounced off. Dd told me about the exchange, but seemed bewildered and amazed but not upset.

Fast forward to today - I told dd that I needed to respond to the girl's birthday invite and say if dd was going to attend. Dd said she didn't want to go to the party because 'X is not very nice, and isn't really my friend'. I encouraged her to think a bit more about it, because even though X might not be so nice, all of dd's other pals will be at the party and she could have fun playing with them.

DD thought a moment, and said 'no, I don't want to go. You go to the parties of your friends, and X is not my friend'.

Very proud of dd that she is learning and acting upon how she wants to be treated by others.