How do I deal with a cheeky 4yr old? I really dont know what to do.

[kbaby]

DD is 4(she'll be 5 in may) since before xmas she has started getting really cheeky and saying some terrible and hurtful things. I dont know how to deal with it and so vary from ignoring her to putting her on the naughty step/taking toy off her.

For example
Yesterday we were in clares acesories and she picked up some awful colour hairband. I told her I would get her a hairband but she needed to choose a different colour. Firstly she had a small paddy but then when I said i wouldnt buy any then she chose a nicer one. When we got outside the shop she started shouting at me saying I was the most horriblest mother ever, she hated me, she wanted to live with a friends mum and i have a horrible voice. When I ignored her she then came up behind me and said ' I am going to kick your butt, you are stupid(she knows i hate the word stupid and we dont use it at home) she then proceeded to kick/hit me but stopped short of actually touching me. At that point I said she does not kick or hit anyone, she would not get the hairband if she couldnt behave. She then called me a few more names before I put her in the car and took her home. Even when we got home she was still at it telling me she hated me, she was going to shoot me and put me in a dungeon(too much barbie/disney films)

This happens almost every day over what ever I have said No to. She also started getting really short tempered. Yest I asked her how her day went at school and she said in a really bad tempered tone ' I do not want to talk about it, I hate your voice stop talking to me' Ive told her it hurts me when she speaks to me like that and its upsetting, ive asked her why she does it and she just says its because I shouted at her, ive tried teling her I only shout when shes naughty and i prefer it when she is good but she says she doesnt like being good.

How do I deal with this? Is it a normal phase? why? do I ignore it all and dont reply back? Do I tell her off for rudeness? punish for attempt at hitting even though she doesnt actually touch me? any help gartefully received

......sigh.....if ANYONE can help I would love, love, love to hear it.

kbaby my dd is exactly the same age and her phase has been going on for nearly a year. The attitude, the backchat, the cheeky voice, it all drives me beserk and when in a REaLLy bad phase I find it difficult to like her. She has good phases too, though. Being back at school has made things worse for my dd so I have wondered if more attention from me and less stress from school help.

I suspect it is very common - if that is any reassurance to you.

Sorry that was no help, but I am struggling through the same thing at the moment too so don't have the answers

Right....here goes....

I can fully understand how frustrating, annoying, upsetting it is for your DD to be like this with you. I get it, not that often mind, with my DD2 who will be 5yrs old in a couple of weeks.

Firstly since DD2 started school (Sept) she has changed a great deal. We get a lot of cheekiness verging on the incredibly rude.

What do I do? I ignore it. It's hard to ignore when my patience can get so thin with her but I ignore her because otherwise she's getting my attention for her bad behaviour whereas I prefer to give my attention when she's being good - ie praising her.

I also try the naughty step but, tbh, that doesn't work with all kids and it certainly doesn't really work with DD2 cos she just sneaks upstairs. I also get kicked and thumped - as does DH and DD1. If she lashes out I tell her that is not nice, make her say sorry and take something away.

Depravation works a treat with DD2. I take away her favourite toy, cuddly etc...I certainly ban tv - watching anything on tv at their age heavily influences them. DD2 will come out with something I've not heard before and it tends to come from tv or from school, certainly not from me or DH.

As it happens DD2's birthday party was booked for the beg of Feb. We were just on the verge of handing out invites and she thumped me...so I warned her if she did it again I would cancel her party. She then thumped her sister - the party got cancelled.

That may sound harsh but if you threaten you must see your threats through - even if its 'don't do that or else I take away your favourite cuddly'.....there's been many times DD2 has had a pile of toys in a bin liner waiting to go to some other child who desperately needs a toy!

How much sleep your DD gets and what they eat also plays a major part in their behaviour. Only last night DD2 was getting stroppy over something, it was only about 6pm - she got put to bed and as it happens she was asleep within minutes.

So, after all that, what's my advice...ignore it, bite your tongue, walk away if you can, don't let her see you get cross because she will simply continue with it....she's getting your attention for being naughty....give her your attention when she's being good - stacks of praise when she is being good/polite etc.

I have always found this age a tough one - starting school etc, finding their feet, more independence and its us Mum's who take the brunt of it!

Remember also...they have to be good at school.....I often ask DD2 why she talks to me the way she does and does she talk to her teacher like that? Her answer is 'no', when I ask why does she talk to me like that then?...her answer will be 'because you are my Mum'. I'm sure they know they can push their boundaries at home whereas at school they can't.

Dd (same age) can also be a little like this and throw the most amazing screaming fits over nothing.

I totally ignore her when she does thes. I will send her out of the room I am in and she absolutely does not come back until she is completely quiet.

Offence 1 = no story in bed. Offence 2 = fewer cuddly toys in bed. Offence 3 = no cuddly toys in bed. Squabbling with brother = no TV for either of them.

Ignore and have consistent sanctions.

Great advice from whispywhisp. I would also advocate thinking about what you're saying no to and why. The hairband is a great example, so you didn't like the colour but clearly she did so why not let her have the colour SHE wants? Doesn't make any difference to you really...

I'm struggling to be less controlling of DS1 (4yo) and its really starting to pay dividends. His attitude definitely comes out if he wants to have/do something and we say no. Obviously you can't just say yes to everything but I think by giving ds1 more control over his own life makes it less of a problem when we have to say no.

.....let me get this straight....

You went into Claires and she chose a hairband? You didn't like the colour she chose. She had a paddy and then chose a nicer one, which you then bought for her?

Sorry....whilst I know this is going to sound like I'm a really cruel Mum....if my daughter threw a wobbler BEFORE she chose a nicer one I wouldn't have bought anything for her.

Basically she got her own way. She got a hairband. TBH whether its a grotty colour or not she got a new hairband out of it. She had something bought for her despite throwing a paddy. Its giving the wrong message.

Please don't think I'm criticising but even if my DD2 threw a paddy AFTER I'd bought the hairband she still wouldn't have got it...I'd have kept it until such time as she was being nice, had said she was sorry and it would've then been a reward for her.

TBH I think the point was DD chose a colour the OP didn't like and the OP refused to buy it ONLY BECAUSE she didn't like the colour, precipitating the 'paddy'. perfectly reasonable response on DDs part IMO. No real reason to refuse DDs choice except the OPs opinion - I'd be cross too if someone stopped me getting something because THEY didn't like the colour. Its about control and realising that at 4 kids can and should be allowed some decision making and control over their lives, especially in terms of things that don't have a wider impact on their safety etc. IMHO anyway

Sorry I probably wasnt very clear on the original post.

We were in there and I asked her if she wanted a new hairband, at that point she was being good. I chose one for her and said ' well get this one' she said ' no I want this one' I said I wouldnt buy that one and then thats when she started to lose her patience and said 'Fine ok then' but at that point it was just the normal i'm not happy with you tone of voice.
It was when the girl was putting it through the checkpoint that she started to get cheeky and complain how horrible I was. At that point I said I would put it back and the girl at the checkout said 'oh ive taken for it now sorry' I told DD she wasnt having it until she had behaved.

Then when we got out thats when she had the big blowout and shout/kick etc.

She still doesnt have the hairband. I put it away once we got home.

I can see that she would be peed off with me not getting her the colour she wanted, I would be as well. But I didnt want to spend £4 on something that was horrible. I thought that by letting her choose any hairband other than that one she would still feel that she had made the decision on which one she wanted to buy(maybe she didnt see it that way)
I do try to let her make her own choices over what she wants, that same day we bought new school shoes which she chose herself.

The hairband is just one example of her behaviour really. It seems that no matter what I tell her off for she reacts the same way.

I can understand why shes having these outbursts ie because ive stopped her having something she wants or doing something she wants. If I tell her off because shes hit her brother I know shes reacting because shes not happy that ive told her off. But the bit I dont know what to do is how to react myself. She is obv saying these things to get a reaction from me which I dont want to give her but yet she knows that what shes saying is naughty and I feel that if I ignore it Im sort of letting her do it and by not stopping her im accepting that actually its fine to call me stupid etc. Does that make any sense?
Whispywisp- If you ignore it do you ignore everything they shout or do - should I ignore the fact that shes throwing her toys against the door? even though normally she would be told to stop it

BTW I dont mind the criticism. Sometimes its hard to see what i'm doing wrong when im stuck in the middle of it all. It takes an outsider to see things better.

I hate to say it but before I even opened your post I suspected you had a DD!

Mine is 4.4 and just missed out on starting school last year. She has 2 friends in the same position (September birthdays) and between them and posts I have read on here it seems to be a universal thing with 4-5 YO girls at the moment.

Perhaps it's a lunar phase or something?!

I had a great HV when DD was tiny as I had PND and I've actually arranged for her to come round for a chat next week so if she comes up with any good suggestions will let you know!

I think your example of the hairband is actually a really good one - she is now 4, why did you choose it for her? Surely about a little thing like a hairband a 4 year old should have some control. I think you need to give her a general boundary eg "no more than £4" or whatever and then let her choose.

I think if this is a general example then you could be being too controlling and need to choose battles alot more carefully!

Other than that I think the cheekiness although very annoying is normal, and personally I ignore OR give a consequence that seems natural eg "if you keep demanding a £5 toy we'll have to go and you won't be able to have a toy at all" or similar.

Also at this cheeky stage it is really really important to always talk to them politely and nicely and not allow yourself to be rude to them, as they reflect it straight back!