Fighting four-year-old

[Frieda]

I know that a bit of rough and tumble is only to be expected in a four-year-old boy, but ds seems to be getting into scraps almost every time he's with another child. A couple of times during the last month when I've been to pick him up from nursery, I've been 'taken aside' to be told he's had to be separated from another child. They always assure me it's just normal boisterousness, and never suggest that he's the only one to blame but I do feel that ds frequently gets to the stage where he's just spoiling for a fight. I've seen him trying to wind other children up ? apparantly just for the hell of it. Needless to say, I can never get a straight story from ds ? there's usually "an invisible man" involved, who pushes him so he "bumps into" the other child ? but what I can't get my head round is that there seldom seems to be a proper reason for it ? they're not fighting over a toy or anything, it just seems like pure devilment.
I've always tried to be quite 'hands off' with him from an early age in an effort to encourage him to learn to deal with inevitable little disputes himself, but I'm not sure this has helped (although I don't see how sorting out all his disagreements would have helped him either). I've tried star charts with rewards for good behaviour, which have worked to some extent, but I'm not really all that happy with the idea of him modifying his behaviour just to get a reward (and I'm sure that's the only reason he responds to this approach); I've tried being stern with him, explaining how his behaviour feels to another person, I've explained that if another child starts something he should move away or tell me or one of the nursery ladies, I've tried taking away toys or depriving him of treats ? all to no avail.
I don't think I'd go so far as to call it bullying, but I am concerened about this behaviour and would love to hear from anyone else who's successfully handled anything similar.

It is a while since my DS was at nursery, he is 8 next week, but I do remember the feelings that go with hearing about the upsets of the day from the staff and feeling guilty and responsible.Is he reasonably behaved at home?, I know its not the same but it gives you an idea, if he is a would nt worry too much, I am sure the staff are just keeping you informed,especially as you might hear something via someone else.Maybe he is getting bored at nursery and needing more stimulating things, does he start school soon?I am sure it is just going to be a stage thing, and before you know it there will be a new one along, keep your chin up and go with the lots of praise when he does do something nice for someone else.

Thanks for that, giraffe ? you're right, he is generally very well-behaved at home and it's easy to focus on the bad things and get them out of proportion. I think some of the trouble is that he's an only one and he does get quite a lot of my undivided attention when we're at home together, wheras when he's at nursery or playing with friends, that isn't the case. I think it's partly an attention-seeking thing. I hope it's just something he'll grow out of as he gets more mature emotionally, however any more tips will be very welcome.

Snap with the only one bit, I think you could of hit the nail on the head there, as maybe if our children had siblings to fight with as I am sure mums of more than one children will agree fighting amongst siblings is a favourite pastime. So maybe they are catching up on what other kids get plenty of at home.Never a dull moment with children around!!!

frieda, it sounds as if you have tried all the approaches I can think of to find the root cause of your son's fighting, so I can't add much there.

I would say IME it's important to keep stressing how he should behave - give him something specific and simple to aim for. Ask him to 'tell the teacher' if he feels some child is annoying him. Someone here once gave me great positive advice - tell your child to 'use his words' rather than keep telling him it's bad to hit. It's like a mantra. Every time your son is involved in an incident, talk it over and ask him if he 'used his words.'

My oldest son went through a similar hitting stage. It really helped me to find out all the background info. Teachers, as you know, don't always have time to tell you, but do ask, and then ask your son.

Do the incidents happen in the morning or afternoon mostly? could your son be acting up when he's tired?

Do they involve the same group of children? if so can your son find other friends to play with (perhaps invite one over for tea or ask the nursery workers to encourage your son to leave the gang)

Does your son playfight or have very boisterous games which then lead on to hitting? If so, can the playfighting stage be tackled more so the hitting stage is avoided?

Obviously the nursery will be doing this sort of thing already, but it helps to know what they are doing.

I think my son was a little immature and easily excited. He couldn't control his emotions sometimes and would hit out rather than speaking out. He did grow out of this, to give you hope. He's 8 now and is not a fighter.

Also, you say that you have witnessed your son winding up other children first. It might be that he is retaliating - are you sure the other child did not wind him up a few minutes earlier when you were not around? It could be part of an ongoing sitiuation - even a game gone wrong. So, have you thought about staying in nursery with your son for a morning to see how all the children gell togther? that might be worth doing, too. And explain why you are doing this to your son, so he knows you take this sort of behaviour very serioiusly.

Hope you find things calm down soon.

Just picked this up ? thanks, tigermoth for your wise words again.
As you suggest, it definitely happens more when he's tired/bored. As giraffe suggests, too, he's one of the oldest at nursery and a little gang of four-and-nearly-a-half year olds usually hang out together, and that's when the winding up seems to happen. He's an October baby and basically, I think his little crowd have been top dogs at the nursery since September, and it's a bit of being ready for something a bit more 'grown up' combined with the laddish thing of jockying for top-dog position in the pecking order.
I spoke to him about the boy he's had most of his run-ins with to try to get to the bottom of it, and he tells me this boy keeps following him around and asking "are you my friend?" which he tells me he finds annoying. Bit unsure of how to handle this one, as I can understand that his reaction is a natural one albeit not desirable, but definitely want to discourage any hint of bullying. (Funnily enough, nothing I've come across about bullying talks about the situation of your child doing the bullying ? we always seem to be told that bullies come from unhappy, dysfunctional backgrounds, which I hope is not the case. )
There's some sort of flu bug doing the rounds at the moment, and most of the others in the gang haven't been around this week so we haven't had any problems.
Thanks for all your suggestions, though