Too high expectations of a 20 month old ?? How to "discipline"

[Tillyscoutsmum]

DD is 20 months and is a lovely, lively little girl.

DH and I are having some disagreements about how to deal with "bad" behaviour.

DD is obsessed with throwing and climbing. She will throw food/cutlery on to the floor when she's finished eating. She also likes to pour her water from her cup onto the floor and then splash in it. She climbs on everything possible (tables, chairs, toy boxes etc.)

I try to repeatedly take her down/pick food up and say no firmly. If I stop her doing something she wants to do, she has a tantrum (which I ignore).

It is pretty wearing and I seem to spend all day saying no - but I think its normal toddler behaviour and there's not much else we can do about it. I do sometimes lose my temper (especially with the food throwing) and have shouted at her - at which point she usually gets upset

DH thinks I'm being too soft. Are there any other ways of dealing with things at this stage ? Am I doing enough to stop the food throwing etc. and will she just grow out of it ? She does seem to understand things, but doesn't seem to listen or take any notice of what I say

Sorry its long and waffley

What does your DH think you should do instead?

DS is 20months and also enjoys tipping his cup upside down to get water out, then demanding kitchen roll to mop it up

When he does that I say no firmly, then if he does it again i just take the cup away.

if I stop him doing something he wants to do, he sometimes has a tantrum. I just ignore him completely. Seems to work ok for us. I try not to stop him doing anything unless really necessary on the grounds that he is exploring himself and his boundaries a bit, as is normal for a toddler.

dd (17m) sounds similar
I try not to say 'no' too much and save it for dangerous things - I do say 'please give that to me / close that cupboard / get down from there etc' quite a lot though, which does work.

I keep an eye when she's eating and when she starts playing around I say 'Have you finished?' - if she has she pushes her chair away from the table, yanks at her bib and/or holds up her hands to be wiped. If I;m busy doing something else and don't notice her starting to play about she'll eventually throw the whole lot on the floor.
She still has spouty beakers so water is less of a problem.

I do let her climb with boundaries so she is fine on stairs sofas, her toy boxes, the laundry basket, the low table in the playroom etc (and she has a step from Ikea that is v good to climb on and off) but bookcases, dining table, tv etc are out of bounds and she knows it.

I also distract a lot - saying 'Oh dd, could you bring me a teddy (or whatever) please?' usually makes her stop whatever she's doing and toddle off to find it.

I think it's easier not to lose your rag if you remember they aren;t doing it with malicious intent and are just exploring the world...

fbb beat me to it and was much more succinct...

She will grow out of it, but it's v tedious at the time isn't it? I would put her water in a non-spill cup until she learns not to pour it everywhere.

Then I would try and remember not to sweat the small stuff. When something annoys you, ask yourself does it really matter, and if it doesn't then try to just ignore it, remembering that it's just a phase.

Snap! Glad to know I'm not alone with my 19 month old DD.
The food throwing was quite bad when DH was looking after her during the christmas period (I had flu) but we've sorted it by doing exactly what MrsB does - keeping an eye on her when eating and getting her off the chair as soon as she starts messing about and don;t put her back into chair as she'll start thinking it's some kind of game.

I do tell her in my sternest voice that we don;t throw food off the floor before getting her down from chair, in the hope she'll understand.

Sounds completely normal to me.

Distraction sometimes works if you think she is about to have a tantrum.

I also used a countdown method in situations where I knew (ie, finally worked out) my 2 would refuse to do something. Still do actually!

Thanks all. I think some of this is where Dh and I disagree. I'm happy for her to climb on things where its not dangerous or will cause damage but DH thinks that signals to dd that she can climb on anything as she doesn't know what is and isn't dangerous. He basically thinks we're confusing her by allowing some things and not others and should be stricter about everything.

The tantrums don't worry me - they're ignored and last about 30 seconds but as soon as she stops, I go back to normal interaction with her (playing, cuddles etc.) but dh thinks we should carry on ignoring her for a while

I suppose the issue is more about what to do when you fundamentally disagree on these things. The temptation to tell him to piss off and that I am with her all day and therefore should have more of a say in these things is huge - but I've resisted so far !

Will try the no spill cup again but she's struggled before to drink from them.

She is improving and the food throwing thing is usually when I'm not sitting with her and is her way of telling me she's finished (rather than throwing everything like she used to). I think its a phase and she'll grow out of it but dh thinks its something we need to stop ourselves somehow ...

Your approach sounds sensible to me, TSM.

It might sound mean (I'm finding that I'm rather mean my MN standards lately) but I found that leaving DS to fall off a few things quickly curtailed the climbing urge. He now only attempts things he is quite confident he can get down from safely - well mostly.
DS (17m) is def the same with not really responding to discipline most of the time although I have noticed slight improvements recently. I'm sure he understands a lot of what's being said to him these days so I try to be more descriptive rather than just saying NO all the time. He finds it very funny when I say no .
Now to stop him drinking the dog's water...???

Bubbaluv - I'll join in that one - I let my DS3 climb on most stuff (and fall off) obviously anything really dangerous then i'd stop him, but if there's nothing he's going to potentially crack his head open on/land on top of (other than floor) I let him get on with it.

He's getting much better (slowly)

I often disagree with my DH about 'discipline' too. In the end, after talking and talking and talking, we always come to an agreement which we stick to because we want to be consistent in how we teach DD what's appropriate/inappropriate behaviour. And, though I always start off thinking my way is the best way because I'm closer to DD, DH offers a fresher perspective and sometimes he's right too.

TSM, I have told my dh to piss off on numerous occasions wrt to dealing with dc!

As for tantrums, dd's used to last 10 - 20 minutes. I never ignored her after it ended. Tantrums are a developmental phase for toddlers, they can't really help it and they need to know that imo.

You do get to work out what is a genuine tantrum and when they are just trying it on though! (generally when they are older tbh)

I've never found telling someone to piss off very constructive, especially if I'm expecting to have a lifelong relationship with them and spend the next 16 years (at least) nurturing and teaching a child with them. Wouldn't want my child to grow up thinking it's acceptable to tell someone to piss off and that my way is the best way.

I found the food throwing really irritating too, but realised that my DD did it most when she had eaten enough. It was almost her way of saying "I've finished now".
I decided that the best way to deal with the problem was that every time she threw food on the floor, I'd tell her "no, it's naughty to throw food, have you finished?" and would sign 'finished'. Then I would repeat 'finished' doing the sign with her hands. You have to be repetitive and do it every time, but now at 21months DD will sign 'finished' and will only now throw food if you don't take it away when she's told you.
The site's a bit sickly, but it gives the
general idea.

I have a similarly over-cautious DP and find I really do have to bite my tongue sometimes over things her chooses to discipline DD (22 months) about. After all he has equal rights to parent her too. What I do do is spout on at length about the 'new' approaches to child rearing e.g. attachement parenting etc. in the hope that some ideas will sink in by osmosis.

When I do feel he has tackled her unfairly - after all toddlers have a lot to learn and they can't do it sitting quietly in a chair - I talk to him about it afterwards, because I think one of the most important principles of parenting is to present a united front.

He has also admitted that some things I do with her he finds annoying (usually to do with being lax ). I try and take these on board and find a compromise we can both live with.

Thanks all ... I haven't told him to piss off - honestly !! He's a great dad and has equal, and often really positive input. He just has a short fuse and high expectations and sometimes shouts and rants at, what I consider to be, silly things.

I think part of my problem is that he was/is so soft with dsd (over compensating for not being there all the time) and it frustrates me that he is much stricter with dd

Thanks again for the responses

FeelingLucky, I don't literally tell my dh to piss off and certainly not in front of the dc

The fact is he only sees them for about 2 hours per day (during the week) so yes I do know them best imo.

Hope I haven't pissed you off Mercy.
My comment was very much a knee jerk response to yours, that's all. No criticism intended of you personally. I'm sure you'd never tell your DH to piss off because you know best.

No! Sorry, same here.

Oh, one thing which does help me win over my DH is to say to him: do you want DD to grow up feeling free to explore her world or do you want her to be inhibited and scared to move because she's been stifled by us saying 'no' all the time? DH then always agree that we should encourage her natural curiosity as long as not dangerous.

ah now that is the key

encouraging their natural curiosity so long as it is not dangerous or antisocial.

I am all for dd climbing all over our house but I am conscious I may turn into one of those laidback parents who are powerless to stop their child climbing all over other peoples' houses.

No, I don't think you are too 'soft',
toddlers want to explore and constantly telling them No
is not much fun for either party and often not particularly effective either.

What we have found pretty useful is
a) suggest less destructive/disruptive ways of doing the same thing.
b) getting her involved in dealing with the consequences of her unfettered exploring.

For a) see my suggestion on this thread about similar toddler shenanigans.

And b):
In the food-throwing scenario (which we also experienced) we would let her do it
but then say loudly and with dramatic mock disapprovement 'OH OH!'
followed by a firm request to help us collect the food on the floor and put it in the bin.

I don't think you are too soft either. They're all about instant gratification and don't understand threats, plus we all give mixed messages to our toddlers, finding some things funny once and then oh that's too far, etc. You know what I mean?

We like distraction too. Especially asking questions. She loves to answer questions. Eg, what colour is (so and so in favourite TV programme - you might have favourite book if you don't watch TV). Even in the middle of a tantrum, the questions will have the required effect.

With the food throwing thing - do they all do this? - I usually ignored. She knew she was being bad and did it for the reaction, and I didn't want her to think it bothered me. So after the first 'you don't do that', delivered in a serious tone, I just went about doing something else.

I would recommend Alfie Kohn's book about Unconditional Parenting. I think the style might suit you.

I think it's probably around this age (at the youngest in most cases) that they can start to understand consequences. My ds is also 20 months and does the throwing cutlery/pouring water/climbing too. Tbh it would be more stress for me to get really wound up each time he does it, though I do always say "no" and hope it'll sink in (eventually ).

It's only when he does things that are actually potentially dangerous I will stop him and be really firm. Eg he sometimes bashes the TV or tries to climb underneath the stand, so I'll switch it off. He definitely understands this as a consequence for playing around with it and has started to stop the behaviour.

Hasn't worked with the jumping on the sofa yet though .

I would stick to my guns re DH if I was you - as you say, you look after her 80% of the time!