Almost four and suddenly defiant - any tips??

[clemette]

Our DD is four in April and has been a very loving, happy child until recently. I had her little brother this time last year and she adjusted very well to him - she was always very loving and kind. She attends nursery three days a week and the staff often praise her for her behaviour - in over three years they have never had cause to reprimand her. She has never had a tantrum and is a very bright little button.

For the past three or four weeks her behaviour has altered dramatically. She has become openly defiant - refusing to follow even basic requests - and shouting at us/stamping her feet/bursting into tears. Christmas has been pretty busy for us and it had become apparent that she is becoming increasingly naughty - when we are out visiting she refuses to let people speak, will not be quiet for any period of time, jumps on people etc etc.
The most worrying thing is that she has started to hurt her little brother - sometimes unintentionally when trying to move him around, and sometime intentionally when she thinks I am not looking.

I think there are a number of factors at play: Christmas, much more chocolate and cake than she is used to (she normally has chocolate once a week), overexcitement, overtiredness, and the fact that her brother is now mobile and sometimes rescuing him means I have to leave her to her own devices (something she has never been good at).

Put frankly, I think she is a bit spoilt and indulged.

Anyway - I was wondering if anyone had any tips to share on how we can manage this.
We have tried rewarding good behaviour, the naughty step (she just sits there yelling for me, apologises very contritely and then carries on), taking away toys (doesn't work - when I told her I was putting her new pogo stick on a shelf all she wanted to know is how I would lift it up there), and even shouting (I am pretty short-tempered).

We are at a loss - any straight-talking would be very, very welcome.
Thanks, Sam

I think you have been very lucky so far ... ds started throwing tantrums at about 12 months although they were few and far between! Have you tried a sticker chart? - we do this from time to time if there is some element of his behaviour that we are struggling with. I am quite strict with ds and if he misbehaves I take him over to it and make him watch me take a sticker away from him. You need to make sure that the reward at the end of the chart is something she really wants! It causes tears etc but I think at times I need to push the the situation rather than just distract. It is rarely necessary but sometimes he needs to be reminded who is in charge! God that sounds mean when I read it back! We used the naughty step a few times but rarely need it now. Ds is a couple of months older than your dd. If he misbehaves now or starts crying in an attempt to get his own way I send him out of the room and tell him not to come back until he has stopped crying and is prepared to apologise and talk to me properly. We always talk about things calmly later after he has apologised. Similarly, if one of his friends gets in trouble /hits him we reinforce what it is that they have done wrong etc. Not sure if any of that helps but I make sure that he NEVER gets away with it!

I have a DS of 6 and a DD a month younger than yours, so I know what it is like! One question: if you make a threat do you consistently follow it through?
Both of mine are masters at drawing me into endless debates - it used to work but now I am very careful not to let it happen. It is really hard work but they know that if I say something I mean it and no amount of complaining/bad behaviour is going to make a difference. DS now only has to be asked whether I ever change my mind to generally do as he is told. It took a while to get there though!

This could be me writing: my placid 4 yo has just become monstrous, also got a 1 yo brother.

No ideas: will be watching with interest!

Thank so far - threats and rewards seem equally meaningless to her sadly. We did have a sticker chart but she never wanted anything as a reward. The only thing she really craves is my constant undivided attention and I don't feel comfortable withdrawing from her...

With the sticker chart, do you put stickers on through the day or one per day?

Wilfsell - it is VERY reassuring that she is not the only one (sorry).

with ds' sticker chart .. we would put a sticker on in the morning when he had got up, got dressed, washed, brushed his hair, brushed his teeth, put his shoes and coat on and ready for nursery. If he then was stroppy at the other end of the day or misbehaved we would take it away again. He needed a whole week's stickers to get a reward. We did, however, usually give him a chance to earn an extra sticker if he had had one taken away from him earlier in the week and he had been good thereafter! We no longer need it for these "chores" as we call them but no doubt will need to reintroduce for something else in time!

If she is after attention and she starts a tantrum I would send her out of the room until she is calm enough to come back and explain herself and apologise. I tell ds that I don't want to see or hear him crying (only if he is being stroppy .. not if he is genuinely upset about something). He hates it but does settle down after a while and comes back in and seems to understand.

Clemette - my dd is 4 and my ds has just turned 1. Alot of what you say has happened here. She was brilliant when ds was born - loving, helpful etc. Her behaviour has changed - since he became mobile and she has become more jealous - doesn't want to hurt ds - just does not want him to have too much attention.
Is she sleeping ok? - ds is appalling and does wake everyone up - poor dd has ended up in our room and is usually a great sleeper but this too has changed with bad dreams etc.
We find the sticker chart a great success - we do lots of praising. We divided into sections - depending on what her problem areas were.
Do you spend much time with just her - I try and do some girly time (we painted each others toe nails and went to the cinema). I have found her really hard work and it doesn't help when you are knackered too

I don't think that would work with Meg - she will explain herself, apologise, tell me she loves me, and then do excatly the same thing!!!

janx - I suspect one on one time is the issue. This holiday is the longest she has spent with DS is one go and I think she finds him a little irritating (he is so much more "into" stuff than she ever was!!)
I do like the idea of sticker chart for specific areas - thank you!

bump

i thin is a phase. a lot of my friends' dcs with 3.5-4 yr olds doing the same. mine certainly is. i find just rationalising and stamping my foot alongside hers ususally works. but not always. leaving to her big strops and making an immediate consequence works eg if you wont put that in hte bin then we will put your colouring away right now. mostly works. hope you find a solution that is right for you. but just remember will be just another phase and you will get through it!

Christmas and 4 year olds is a recipe for brat like behaviour. Certainly was here. I'd say don't worry about it too much or make too big a deal out of it. Don't tolerate whatever she's doing, have one punishment that she doesn't like and stick to that - eg removing her from the room or saying no story later or whatever. Definitely don't indulge it by showing too much interest or worry about it either. Get her back into her routine and see if the problems persist. If they do, then worry about it. My son's lots better now all the tinsel has gone, I'd bet your daughter will be the same.

I've had the same problem with my 4 year old. I had to take the tree down on boxing day to get some kind of normality again.
I'm putting this latest bout down to too much chocolate, too many presents, too much attention and a mostly ignored routine. Hopefully as Smee says, getting her back in her routine will sort it out.. it's starting to work with mine.
Best of luck

sorry, have just realised she's not yet four. I'd still blame Christmas though

Thank you both.

Message withdrawn

Turning your back on them works too - don't get cross, just deny them any attention. I go up to my little hideaway and work on my computer and tell him that when he's prepared to say sorry and stop doing whatever it is, I'll come back. Works every time and stops you shouting too

Thanks again everyone. She has calmed down a bit now things are going back to normal but we are still seeing an alarming amount of stamping and growling!!