friends ds behaviour really bothering me....adivce on how to handle it please?

[upsetfriend]

Namechanger BTW

Hi have a very good friend whose ds is the same age as dd (just about 3) whose behaviour is horrendous (in my opinion) at toddlers, and other random meet ups at soft play, he is very disruptive, screams, hits and bites and is not really pleasant to be around. I find this more and more difficult to deal with, as it is upsetting my dd, who ask why he is a "naughty boy" makes her more likely to hit back and to be honest just makes play dates really unenjoyable.

She does try to discipline him, but he either laughs and takes no notice, screams at her and then gos and repeats the behaviour.

Last week her hit my dd over the face leaving a mark and It took all my self control not to say anything.

I love this friend dearly, but feel like avoiding doing play dates with her, as it is just not fun.

I am quite strict with my dd and hitting/biting etc is just not tolerated.

So has anyone else had this experience before, and is it something just to ride with and normal boy toddler behaviour.

Please help as it is making me really sad

Oh dear. Imagine what the situation is like for your friend though? It's most likely just a phase he's going through. Is there a time of the day when he's calmer? Would it help if you met up then?

Oh i know it must be nightmare for her really I do sypathise with her, but its driving me nuts

does not help that I am pregnant too, so a tad hormonal about it all.

I don't think your being overly hormonal, hitting and biting is unacceptable behaviour in most peoples eyes.
I am also as strict as I can be with ds, he is only 17m, but he gets a firm no and a moving away if he does something like that, which thankfully isn't often at the moment!
I've been at playgroups and the like and have had other children hit, snatch, bite, push my ds and the parents do/say nothing and it bothers the hell out of me. I really don't know what to suggest where your friend is concerned, it must be very difficult.
Hope it works out soon.

If she understands the effect it is having, could you see how she'd feel about you telling him off when he hurts your dd? Obviously we normally all bite our tongues when other DCs parents are there, and I don't mean you should tell him off for other stuff like general shouting, but if your dd is being hurt then she needs to know that someone is dealing with it, and it might have some effect if he's used to ignoring his mother.

Aww bet your friend finds him really hard work when out and about. It's very hard to have the child who is labelled 'naughty'.(which is ridiculous btw...he is a baby)Yes have experienced it lots of times with my own son and other children (boys and girls) when out and about at groups etc. Yes it's normal and yes it will pass.

Hitting and biting...i'm sure she doesn't want to tolerate it either...but fact is is that it's happening.It doesn't sound like she's tolerating it...just that she is finding it hard to deal with it.

Do you think you could help distract him when you think he's getting over excited? i'm sure she would really appreciate it if you could give her a hand with him....or at least tell her she's doing a fantastic job when she tries to take him in hand.I swear to you...she will love you forever! ...and who knows the boot might be on the other foot one day...you can call on her.

Keep the playdates short...try and get out...meet at the park rather than inside.My boy (much more than my girl) needed to blow off steam and get out and about.

Good luck.I have been on the other side of the fence too with little girl getting hurt too...so can see where you are coming from too btw...but it was much harder having the hitter!

I do think she finds it hard work ,she was telling me that she had to leave soft play the other month as her ds had bitten another child and she cried all the way home

Sometimes I do try to tell her ds off myself or distract him in some way and tell her to have a seat and I will deal with him to give her a break, but when he really whacked dd across the face leaving a mark, I was furious/upset and pissed off that she didnt do more iyswim?

he did come and say sorry, but it was not meant in a sincere way at all, and he was just saying it to kepe his mum happy you could tell.

Put is this way, if my dd had done that to someone, I would have come down very hard on her, and would even have prob taken her home

Hi upsetfriend.

I can totally understand how hard it is for you (and your DD), but I also sympathise with your friend.

My 3 yr old son sounds just like your friend's little boy.
I try really hard to discipline him, and me and DH (and his nursery) are all working on trying to get him to behave in a more social way, but it is an uphill struggle at the moment. I find play dates and things like softplay very hard going. I limit playdates, to be honest, and have all but stopped going to softplay after leaving in tears a few times because DS behaved so badly and the other mums were giving me daggers . I have a couple of great friends who are very understanding and supportive (although both have well behaved, quite children!). It is a huge relief for me to be in their company and they are a lifeline at the moment, to be honest, as they see the bigger picture and are supportive and humourous about things when it all gets too much. This doesn't mean that I just sit back and let my DS be hideous, though. I still discipline him, and i would hope that your friend does try to, too.

In short, if you can hang on in there and offer your friend support, I bet she will appreciate it massively.

but..... if I offered support/sympathy, would it not then become obvious to her, that I am recognising her ds bad behaviour,and make me look like some smug bitch with the well behaved dd?

Does that make sense

How do I broach the subject?
How about

"I can see your ds behaviour is upsetting you, is their anything I can help with? "

p.s. I agree that your friend perhaps does need to come down a bit harder on her DS. Once my son starts hitting now, we leave. No negotiations, no second chances.
'You hit, we go.'

It has made some difference, and has certainly contributed (I think) to completely nipping the biting in the bud.

It's hard, though. You can't really tell her how to discipline her own child - but you can certainly talk aroud the subject. One of my friend's has a sister with a large family, including two very boisterous boys - a bit of an expert, then!- and she often tells me what her sister has done in certain situations. I am always grateful for the input, to be honest.

I think you can and should broach the subject, actually. She may well be relieved. I wouldn't think you were smug, anyhow. As I said, both of my really supportive friends have really quiet, 'good' kids, but I don't hold it against them!
I think the key is, they recognise that kids are kids, some of them are challenging etc, and they are supportive of me, so I can be really open with them when I am struggling and we can genuinely discuss the subject, share ideas etc. I am always willing to listen to other parent's advice.

Madamdeathstare - this is what my friend and I did with ours when they were little.
We were both young when we had our children (far too young) and spent a lot of time together taking the children out or at each others houses and we also found that if I disciplined her dd she would take more notice and vice versa with my ds.
Sometimes it felt nice for somebody else to help!

oh god I feel so guilty now

the other little thing thats bothering me, is that we are due to have a joint birthday party in a months time and I dreading him spoiling it for dd

I think "I can see your ds behaviour is upsetting you, is their anything I can help with? " is perfect. And tell her how you're feeling - that you're struggling when you see her DS hurt your DD, and appreciate how hard it must be for her, and you want to help but are afraid of seeming smug. Make sure you throw in something positive about the DS at the same time - "he's such a clever/good-looking/articulate/whatever kid".

My DS3 was that monster child at playgroups etc - and as he is the youngest of 4 you'd have thought I knew what I was doing by then! By the time he started school it had all passed, but your friend does need to be consistent. I think just starting a conversation about it might be a relief to her.

there

Hmmmm. Have to be honest. I wouldn't dream of having a joint birthday party with my DS and anyone else, because he is pretty much unable to cope with that level of excitement without going off on one in some way. Maybe your friend is the type to soldier on with plans, though, and not run away screaming from the idea of any situation that could become stressful, like me (big scaredy cat that I am!). Perhaps it's best to think now about how you are going to handle it if he kicks off at the party? I'd say with a big dose of distraction and / or humour, if I were you. perhaps you could use the birthday party to initiate a conversation with your friend? I'm not sure how, exactly.Will think about it....

at dd's nursery, how they dealt with biting/hitting was by shadowing. staff would take it in turns to follwo a child, and as soon as they looked like they were about to hurt a child, the adult would intervene. that way the behaviour is distracted & the pattern becomes 'i'm angry, i'm stopped, i do something else & i get praise' not 'i'm angry, i've retaliated, i'm being told off & it's not fair'. i know it's tiring, but it can help a child to change their behaviour, adn you'd only need to do it when in a soft play place. dd had a friend a bit like this, (well, i was freinds with his mum) and we just made sure we were always in sight, and one of us watching.

also, how often does he ineract with other children? is he better at quiet playdates than in big groups? if it's only once or twice a week he meets other kids, and only in big groups, then i could imagine he's just completely hyper about it

I have just sent her a text asking if she is ok. and got a lovely reply about how stressful she is finding it, and that she really appreciates my support

My new years resolution is to be nicer and non judgemental this year

I am sure I am hold my tongue and be a good friend.

Good on you upsetfriend

You sound like a good friend, upsetfriend. I had one mum from my antenatal group who offered that kind of non-judgemental support when DS1 was going through all this. The afternoon he pulled her DD1's hair and wouldn't let go, in particular was terrible. I was distraught. Through it all she offered the kind of warm, thoughtful support people have spoken about here and that meant a lot to me. He is now on the quiet end of the boy spectrum aged nearly six. I wouldn't have believed that could happen then ...

I preferred her helpful approach to the 'lets pretend he isn't being awful' one that others adopted, in equal attempts to be kind.

my friend's DD was like this (slightly younger, more at 2 than 3 tbh, so could be very hard work. She was doing the best she could, so I hung in there. Then my DS's speech/social skills turned out to be very delayed - and so the favour was repaid - though DS wasn't aggressive, he could be rather passive and aloof, so not ideal playmate material. And my friend stuck by me. My friend having a 2nd DD made a big difference; my friend's DD is quite bossy, and a natural leader - so being 2/3 and having little autonomy was a bad age for her.

I have a friend who's little boy behaves in a similar way. She really ties herself up in knots about it. He has had problems in pre-school soon and there is talk that he could possibly be autistic or have aspergers. He is very difficult, although there is never any malice in his naughtiness as i have noticed with some little boys. He does get quite violent with other cildren and is incredably strong.

I find it helps to be totally open with her, and she is very open about her sons behaviour too. He is a very likable little boy who is scarily bright.

I honestly just think, talk to her openly about it - i will quite happily reprimand her lad as it often helps for someone else to tell him, but of course that is very dodgy waters and depends on how your friend feels about it.