Am I doing the wrong thing by speaking for my dd when she won't speak?

[Wallace]

I recently started a thread about being a bit concerned that dd (3.9)doesn't talk to other kids or adults, apart from close friends and family.

I think I may be making the problem worse. When somebody talks to her, I know she won't answer, so when she ignores them I answer for her. Should I be doing this? I just don't want to seem rude, but there is no chance she will speak, even to some people she knows, like the waitreses at the cafe we have been going to at least once a week since she was born!

When they say "Is she shy" I tell them that dd will talk when she is ready, and leave it at that. I don't want her to label herself as "shy". does that make sense?

I think that might be something dd would really respond to. I may give it a try in situations where she doesn't usually speak. I wonder if it would be worth asking the nursery teachers to try with puppets?

I know what you mean about when people ask questions out of the blue. When they do this to dd and expect her to answer, I feel like saying to them "Can't you see she is busy with xyz?"

Hi Wallace,

If you've had a sniff, and thought 'interesting, there are similarities, but it's not dd' then I'd go with your gut instincts.

If you feel the situation ever worsens or changes, you've got relevant knowledge on the 'back burner' so to speak, and perhaps you can brief any carers on what to look for, or how they might better interact with your dd.

I agree entirely with your stance on labelling. Use it when you need it, otherwise one could argue it is irrelevant. Your dd is the person she is.

LOL at "she doesn't really seem anxious, or shy. It just seems like she doesn't want to talk to some people, so she doesn't."

All in good time, Wallace, I am sure !

BTW, thank you for the comments on those links. Most useful.

But when does a gut feeling that she is okay become pretending there isn't a problem?

I haven't really got the full picture about what she is like at nursery, so I do need to have a more indepth chat to the teachers to see what their opinion is.

If you think the puppets thing might work, I definitely think it would be worth a try at nursery. Perhaps it would be a good idea to introduce the puppet or toy that you are going to use at home first so then it becomes like a familiar person going to nursery with her. The nursery staff could treat it like a new child and get it to ask occasional questions first like "where do I wash my hands?" and see how it goes. It does rely a bit on the nursery staff being prepared to feel a bit foolish making toys talk although they ought to be used to it.

In fact you might all benefit because when the toy comes home you can ask it to give you a fair opinion of how your dd is getting on .

Wallace, I don't know when that feeling transitions into self-deception. It's a tough one to call, particularly as (1) I'm in no way qualified to comment and (2) don't know you / your family's history.

I had a look at your past posts, and from what I can see you also have a little boy, and have done / are doing LSA in SEN with autistic kids. I imagine you've seen / studied enough to hazard a guess as to your dd's situation.

Perhaps if you continue to ponder on this you could see your GP or have a referral to a specialist / consultant / paed. / Ed Psych / Language Therapist etc. ?

I don't suppose you can tie any particular change in circumstances / life history to a marked change in verbal behaviour ? I haven't done the full Friendly Stalker thing on your posts, but could the heart surgery have made her less trusting of others, for example ?

I noticed you mentioned in another post dd "sounds really grown-up when she talks", so if everything's OK at home, I would guess giving her the time to really settle at nursery is all that is needed.

Erm.... does that help a little ?

Ooooh...I've got a stalker

You could be right about the heart surgery mkaing her less trusting. At that age (18months) she was a friendly wee thing, and I'm sure she was still that way when she turned two. I can't put my finger on it when she changed, but by the time she started nursery at three I warned the teachers that she may not talk to them.
I occaisionally wonder if she is on the spectrum, then at other times I am pretty sure she is not. I do have a tiny bit of experience with SN kids, but their problems are far worse.

I will get the teachers to try the puppet thing (if they agree!). I even found myself thinking "It would be great because then I will have someone I can ask about what dd is really like at nursery..." a blonde moment...

Also I great excuse to go shopping for another dolly/puppet

Of course the heart thing's a long shot, but you never know. I seem to remember from reading your posts she recovered v. fast, so it's probably nothing to do with her verbal activity at the mo....

Maybe the finger puppets could ask her if she remembers it, and tell her what happened, and how all the nice people helped make her better and stronger because they all thought she was so lovely etc. etc.

Don't quite get the blonde moment (perhaps I'm having a male version for people with dark hair ), but don't you feel you can talk to the nursery staff anyway ? (Sorry if I misunderstood the gist...)

The nursery teacher, who is part-time, is awful and expects every child to fit in with her idea of what a three or four year old should be like, and is so patronising. The assistant and the auxiliary are lovely, but I am worried that it would have to be the teacher I talked to with any formal concerns (theirs or mine).

I think she does remember surgery vaguely. We were looking at her scars, and talking about them. I said something like"this is where the wire was coming out" And she said "the wires hurt me" also recently she has said "mummy and daddy weren't there" I told her that we were. Of course we weren't there every moment, and this maybe is what she remembers.

Hi Wallace, perhaps this is not what you want to hear, and I don't know if you had to struggle to get this place for dd, or if money for a different nursery is available etc. etc., but if you think the teacher is awful, has old-fashioned, inflexible ideas about how kids should behave / perform, and you hesitate about talking to her, then you, and maybe dd, are probably in the wrong place.

dd could well be picking up your vibes that this woman is somewhat crap, or may have formed her own opinion - perhaps similar - already, and has chosen to go rather quiet in this lady's presence.

I note the assistant and aux. are lovely, but at the end of the day it's the teacher who's responsible for the structure of the day and the atmosphere of the nursery. This just sounds like such a bad fit for you.

Could it be feasible to change ? Where do you live ? Perhaps posting / sharing info with others who live near you might reveal suitable alternatives ?

PS - Does the nursery teacher have a boss ? It might be worth having a word, perhaps they are trying to get rid of her etc. etc. etc.

Ref: heart... interesting observations...

Do you have any photos of time she spent in the hossie, or the recovery period ? Did you keep a diary which might have accounts of how often you were visiting at the time ? Could dp / friends also get involved and tell stories about how they all came to see her, and bring her pressies, and wanted her back home etc. etc. etc. Maybe you could celebrate the anniversary of the op to help her talk about it ?

I don't have experience with kids yet (our first is due in August), but is it conceivable that some feelings of abandonment (however unfounded) are causing her to be reticent in conversation ?

Another long shot, but I'm just trying to think laterally, is that you and dp were probably incredibly scared and nervous at the time... Maybe in dd's little world she thought she had somehow done something wrong with her having a problem in her heart, and needing all this painful treatment, and not always being able to be right next to mumma and pappa (not sure if you have a dh / dp...)

It is so hard to say if she has been affected, she has been through a lot. At the hospital she was great, and I didn't have to stay in with her. I will have some more conversations with her about it, and see if I can find out more about what she is feeling/thinking.
BTW It is a dh I have, he is away at the moment, hence all the time I am spending on the computer!

As for the nursery, unfortunatly it is the pre-school nursery at the local school, and there is no other option. The teacher is only part-time, and dd mostly attends on days when she isn't in. The teacher is fairly new, but the asst. and aux. have been there forever, and I think they still "run" the nursery. Before the new teacher came there hadn't actually been a teacher for almost a year.

I do like the idea of dd forming her own opinion about the teacher, and coming to the conclusion that she is crap, and not worth talking to

At this stage I think all I can do is stop worrying, and see what happens when I talk to the nursery about dd.

Thanks for all your help - it has been so good to talk it through with someone.

Good luck for baby in August xx

Thanks for the luck. I will bottle it up and give it to dw to drink with the lucozade at the birth.

Sounds good that the asst. and aux run the shop ... I hope it can only get better. But if you do continue to feel nervous about it, you should go and talk to the teacher / someone else. She'll only think you're bonkers - but possibly she does already, and she will at least know that you are 'on top of the case' so to speak.

I thought you might like the "dd forming her own opinion about the teacher, and coming to the conclusion that she is crap, and not worth talking to" idea. It could so easily be so right !!!!

She (dd) has probably got your sense of humour which sounds dry and sharp !!!

I'm glad I've been of some help. You might like to post a message in Special Needs - although the idea might make you feel / admitting there might be a problem etc., you will probably find more experienced mammas who could have useful suggestions - even if it's to reassure you that from descriptions of dd's speech / behaviour she is not in the spectrum etc. etc.