Am I doing the wrong thing by speaking for my dd when she won't speak?

[Wallace]

I recently started a thread about being a bit concerned that dd (3.9)doesn't talk to other kids or adults, apart from close friends and family.

I think I may be making the problem worse. When somebody talks to her, I know she won't answer, so when she ignores them I answer for her. Should I be doing this? I just don't want to seem rude, but there is no chance she will speak, even to some people she knows, like the waitreses at the cafe we have been going to at least once a week since she was born!

When they say "Is she shy" I tell them that dd will talk when she is ready, and leave it at that. I don't want her to label herself as "shy". does that make sense?

I did a lot of work with an adult elective mute. Hadn't spoken to any of his care workers ever. One day I sang "hello xxxx" and he sang back, a little tremulous, but not bad for someone who hadn't spoken in years (if ever). Will she sing a response?

I don't think she joins in singing songs, or the actions, at nursery. That must have made you feel great bobbybob, did he start talking more after that, or was it a one off?

Thanks for all the advice AQ. Now I know a bit more i can talk to the nursery and see how they are handling it. I will keep you updated on how she is getting on

Funny about singing. My son isn't elective mute (he's autistic) but he finds it easier to sing (and remember the words etc) than to talk (he's pretty much non-verbal).

I sometimes get a tut if he doesn't respond and so I just say quite bluntly "he can't talk". People don't always understand though as they carry on trying to elicit a response. The worst was an old bat who kept on saying over and over again "what's your name?" "what cat got your tongue?" " is it john, or fred what is it". Ds1 just blanked her, I told her he couldn't talk but she carried on. So I left her to it until she got onto talking about her friend about how rude children of today are! Not half so rude as old bats who completely fail to listen!

Hi Wallace, some great advice here.

I'm out of my depth (bloke with 1st sprog on the way), but could certain activities where your dd can express herself in other ways be encouraged (perhaps spending more time doing this sort of thing than the average kid) - I'm thinking dancing, messy painting, interaction with (tame) farmyard animals, caring for younger toddlers - things which give her alternative avenues of expression...

(Sorry if this is already what her day is full of !!)

oooh.. one another: learning a musical instrument / general musical appreciation / experience clubs ?

Warning: the following text could well be tosh - cutting-edge psychology is often a labelling game -but incase it is useful:

"Selective Mutism (SM), which is a genetically linked communication anxiety disorder. SM children get so anxious their voices cannot come out. Their vocal cords freeze, as do their bodies. This is due to the nervous system, which causes the body to go into a flight or fight mode when stressed. Therefore, SM children cannot physically speak and although this inability to speak outside the home seems like a behavioral problem, it, truly, is not. A child with Selective Mutism is not being oppositional or defiant. Selectively mute children have not been abused. They are literally ?scared silent.?"
Source

I wonder if physical play (particularly in the nursery setting where it might not normally occur) would be good - tickling, pretend grappling etc. ? I always needed to yell 'stop ! stop !' when tickled

Another approach sees the involvement of a therapist who:
""He literally breaks everything down into the tiniest steps, and it works with her. She gets assignments such as staring competitions with lots of people she knows. She is rewarded with stickers," "
Source

Thnak you h2d that is good advice. Interestingly it reminded me that recently at nursery they had a trampoline out. Afterwards the teacher said to me that they were hearing one of the kids giggling loudly, looked round, and there was dd bouncing like mad laughing to herself!

She does love painting, and we probably don't do as much as she would like. I am hoping during these easter holidays to be able to spend more time with her (and ds) than before the holidays. I am at college as well, and it was frantic before the holidays with all the assignments due in. I don't think dd was helped either by my being so busy, as she had to attend a few sessions at the college nurseries.

I am hoping that after the holidaysI can begin to arrange to have more of the children from nursery round on a one-to-one basis. I have noticed that sometimes she won't speak to someone, like one of my friends, outside the home, but in her own setting she will chat away.

I wouldn't say she is a timid child, she likes thiongs like big steep slides, and is quite brave. One thing that scares her though is lambs!! we met some recently that were over friendly, but she id love giving one a bottle from the other side of a fence

Jimjams - what part of "He can't talk" didn't she understand? Luckily dd is tiny for her age so people do presume she is younger, and can't talk!

oh I know wallace. It's because he looks "normal". Surprisig how many people don't realise that you can be severely disabled and still look "normal". I think they also think he must understand (a lot of people just shout louder)- they just don't get it.

jimjams grrrrrrr@old woman. i just tell peopel that dd2 wont talk to them. occasioanlly she surprises us and talks to people.

LOL at dd going crazy on the trampoline.

It's interesting that it was a physical activity that gave her so much pleasure. If you have a garden, maybe a low climbing rope or car tyre swing above somewhere soft might be her cup of tea ?

A roll of lining paper from a DIY shop (and I think IKEA) might enable her to make big time mess without turning the room into an artist's studio !

Also, it's frog spawn time, and a small child-friendly, shallow wildlife pond (mesh screen on top / fenced if needed), or a fish tank if you haven't got a garden or don't want to risk a pond might be fun for her to see the life cycle, relate to the creatures, give them names, show them off to visitors, explain to her friends how they grow legs etc. etc. etc.

Some of my tadpoles are wriggling in their eggs. It's amazing to watch. Others have hatched out I think but still clinging to the spawn mass.

misdee - your dd sounds like mine! Do you think sometimes it seems like she is very stubborn?

we are thinking of a trampoline for her birthday in June. We'd like to get one big enough (and strong enough!) for adults to go on too,but it will probably fill half the garden. She likes to play playdough, and with water nd sand. I noticed that when she went to the nursery at the college, she played mostly with the activities meant for the toddlers, like playdough, rice trays, etc

Wallace - a while back I was contemplating my garden design and spent quite a while googling 'active playgrounds' which rather than being full of garish play equipment, are geared around creating an environment conducive to learning through creative play:

Bubbling mud pools, sandy / beachy spaces with water waves, hiding holes for little people to disappear into, groups of stumps as chairs to encourage conversational huddles, hummocks of soil to create vantage points for pirate play etc., water snakes where kids can drop tiny boats etc. at one end and pick them up at the other.

It was a fascinating topic... I momentarily considered it as a career move !

kompan.com
naturalplaygrounds.com
planetearthplayscapes.com

Possibly your dd enjoys this very hands-on experimentation. They can learn loads about the physical world through guided activities of the sort you describe (as well as, of course, having fun on their own)

Anyone remember the smell of playdough in the 70s ? It was lush before they detoxed it !!!

Those playgrounds sound right up my street off to have a browse right now

We make our own playdough - I like it best when it is still warm. We add things like glitter or vanilla, into it for some variation.

Would be very interested in your comments regarding those three links, and the topic overall. Did any one company's products / approach / design strike you as being very much more interesting than the others ?

I think it would be fab that more playgrounds were structured around this sort of idea - especially when there is enough space to do it justice, and get children of various ages enthralled in different ways.... I read about playgrounds that had collections of rain sticks that you could turn up-side down, that had paths designed for kiddy bikes (softer planting to the sides, rubber cushioning for falls, playgrounds where they integrated small areas of wildlife-friendly habitats etc.

My client carried on singing - his care worker would sing "would you like a coffee?" and he would croak "yes please". We developed songs for most social situations. He wouldn't sing the songs during the session, but aparently did practise them in the home!

Joining in with group singing is daunting - I doubt she would do that, but has she been known to sing to herself in the bedroom?

She does sing to herself a fair bit. She likes to make up her own songs. Her latest was when she was riding her bike and it went like this,
"The big riding girl,
is riding her bike,
down to the town today.
ANd what do you think she saw!"

Dd is a really lovely sweet girl, I just wish she was more like herself in front of others so they could see what she is really like.

hub2dee - still lookng!

It's a big, quite engaging topic. Enjoy ! I know I did.

hub2dee - ready for my initial summing up

We live in a rural area, so naturalplaygrounds.com is a bit too like the natural surrondings, but is exactly what it would be lovely to see in an urban area. Kompan products are more like traditional playpark equipment, with a difference. I think there are some playparks in some of the towns in my area with Kompan stuff. They do look great fun, and I would like one in my village! My personal favourite is planetearthplayscapes.com. They look wonderful, and so much more than just a playpark. Very multi-sensory. I think I might like to use some of the ideas in my garden!

Yeah... I went through and figured out what could / couldn't be incorporated etc.

Fun stuff. Would be great if urban town planners incorporated some of these ideas I think.

Good luck with the singing dd !

It would be brilliant. I wish I could describe just how c**p our local playpark is. It is built on land that used to be bog, so is very wet, and it has 2 things in it. A slide and a thing with a firemans pole. And that's it.

It's so the Pole Dancers have somewhere to practice perhaps ?

of course! It's obvious now

Wallace - did you have a chance to google around 'selective mutism' - did any of the research / findings seem relevant to your situation ?

Does it feel odd having an unheard of label possibly applying to your dd ?

Hope all well.

I've been having a look around, and though she does seem to meet the criteria, my gut feeling is that her problem is not as serious as those I've been reading about.

The thing about labels is that although I don't want her to be labelled anything, if it is going to be a problem, then it helps to have a label to get help. I'm waffling again...

The other thing is that everything I've read says it comes from being anxious. SHe doesn't really seem anxious, or shy. It just seems like she doesn't want to talk to some people, so she doesn't. Or in the case of talking to other kids, that she doesn't quite know how.

Wallace, my ds2 (3.5y) seems to have some communication problems, possibly dyspraxia, possibly autistic spectrum and so doesn't always answer questions especially when asked out of the blue. One thing I find is that he will talk to animals or toys sometimes. So on the way back from preschool we stop and look at the ducks and they say to him (enter dubious duck like voice from me) - "what did you do at preschool today ds2?" And then he might answer and have a little conversation with them. We do it at the farm with all the animals and sometimes his toy Fimbles talk to him. It seems to give him the chance to practise conversation in a non-threatening way. I have heard that some children will talk through a puppet or doll. I don't know if any of this might help your daughter build up her confidence.