Oh wise MNer's, please please come and give me your tips/advice on how to deal with the 'terrible twos'

[tistheCEEBEEtobejolly]

I am talking all aspects of it (as my DS1 seems to be displaying all of them all at the same time) so tantrums, whinging, 'me do it' syndrome, naughtiness, ignoring our instructions....

I (and DH) are pretty much at the end of our tether with us and we are becoming increasingly impatient with him and starting to lose our temper - which is obviously not a good thing!

The 'me do it' syndrome is probably the hardest as he wants to pick which top he is going to wear but won't actually pick one iyswim, or will want to do something and take forever to do it which is really impractical when you are in a rush.

I should probably add that we also have a 5 week old DS, and I realise some of his current behaviour is probably related to that, but being at home with DS1 is becoming harder and harder and we are starting to dread Christmas when he isn't going to nursery and will be with us for 5 days

Any advice would be greatly appreciated to deal with any of these issues

OK, he doesn't know how to make a decision yet, so cut down on his choices - give him two tops to choose from and he'll find it much easier.

It is hard when they start to spread their wings and you do have to cultivate patience. I don't know what sort of things you're talking about when you say he takes forever, but if you know something's got to happen can you build in a bit of extra time so he can do it. For instance, if he takes 10 minutes to put his coat on, then start getting him into putting-on-coat-mode early.

Tantrums are funny, just let him do it, ask if he feels better when he's finished and just make sure he doesn't hit himself hard enough to do damage (he won't, anyway). I used to have a big grin on my face when dd tantrummed, (MIL was horrified - neither of her children ever had a tantrum) but dd really didn't have many, because I didn't take them seriously.

Ignoring instructions - of what? Somethings it doesn't matter and a bit of exploration is good, so just let him. (DH used to try to show dd how to play with a particular toy rather than let her muck about with it.)

Whinging you can try the "I can't hear you when you use that voice". If he goes to a nursery you can ask the staff there what they say to whingers (that's where I got the one I've put above).

Total consistency between parents. Ignore tantrums.

Allow as "much me do it" as feasible. Which in reality means take a deep breath, and plan very little in your day. Don't offer a choice of more than two things. So do you want red or blue shirt today? Not what do you want?

In fact thats another good point. Just stop asking things as a question. Make it a statement of fact. So no more "shall we go to the shop to get some milk?" It needs to be "after snack we are going to the shop to buy some more milk"

And a fantastic piece of MN advice I've seen a few times is the whole pretend you are Mary Poppins, or that someone is filming you, so you do your best faux cheerful perky jolly act. After a few days of acting, it does actually become fairly second nature.

Go out every day too. Park for half an hour to feed the ducks, or walk, or bike.

It is mindless. Mine are 22 months and 4 months. It will pass!

Jux - thanks for the advice.

By 'ignoring our instructions', I mean asking him not to do something because it is naughty, dangerous or hurting the baby etc - he literally just ignores us.

An example of taking too long to do things, tonight he wanted to put the toothpaste on his toothbrush (even though he had no intention of cleaning his teeth as every day that is a battle in itself!) and was literally deliberately messing about with the toothpaste - DS2 was screaming because he needed feeding and DS1 was deliberately procrastinating as he didn't want a bath.

Re choices - it is not as simple as only giving him the choice of 2 tops as if I give him a choice of 2 tops, he knows all the other tops he has so always wants one of those or if watching telly, he will ask for a programme that is not on and then tantrum when we explain that it is not on etc

Long sentence warning......!

One thing I've stumbled on that seems to work with their refusal to co-operate with nappy changes / going for a nap (or whatever seems to be their reoccuring theme) etc etc is to talk about the event before you plan to do it, then change the subject and then give them a choice of something but with the assumption that the event is taking place.

e.g. DD would throw huge strops about going for her nap. So, before lunch I tell her that we're going to have lunch, then a rest and then do x,y,z in the afternoon. During lunch I say 'after your rest, we're going to do x,y,z' and then we talk about the morning and other random stuff. Then after lunch, we play for 10 mins or so and then I'll suddenly ask her which dolls / teddy's is she going to take with her for her rest today and amazingly she chooses and off we go. I think (with her anyway), expectation management seems to be the key as i don't think toddlers like to be rushed / have to make 'big'decisions etc and they just get stressed. If you minimise it as much as poss but still give them an element of control it seems to work much better. I think.

You've had great advice here - I'd second Spank's advice in particular - brief him to within an inch of his life, and make sure he knows that something he wants to do follows - and is usually contingent on - the thing he doesn't want to do. So "when you've had your bath we'll have stories and a cuddle, but you have to have your bath first, don't you? Now, do you think we should have bubbles...." slightly demented stream-of-consciousness patter from you can be v effective - my mum got dd over a total phobia of potties and toilets incredibly quickly with this technique.

Oh yes - with the teeth and bath thing, I get the toothbrush ready and instead of saying 'time to clean teeth' or whatever, I present it to her as a done deal and ask 'so where would you like to sit to clean your teeth?'. 9 times out of 10, she immediately finds somewhere where she'd like to sit. If she doesn't i tell her that her teeth are going to be cleaned and she can either have some fun and be clever and do it herself first, or i will do it. If she dithers some more (AT ALL), without saying anything at all, I quickly and calmly pick her up and sit her on my lap and pin her down with my arms and legs and do it myself. She knows that they will get done and she can either do it and then me, or it will be just me.

With the bath I get her to help me run it if I can but most of the time she's running around larking about, so I will bodily undress her and plonk her in it if i need to BUT I will always have 5 mins of larking about with her and chasing her and playing peekaboo first pretending to get her in and then i clap my hands, say 'right then, now we're going to have the bath' and she knows it's time as I will and do take matters in to my own hands.

Re. the TV - I ask her what DVD she wants to watch and then if she changes her mind 2 mins in to it I tell her that she must decide which one she wants to watch and stick to it or I will turn the TV off. She can make a different choice at that stage and then if she changes her mind again and won't accept that what's on is on, the thing gets turned off.

State what the boundaries are and stick to them. Give them time to process them and learn them I say.

The ignoring - what seems to sometimes work with my DD is to actually go over and touch her, hold her hand still if touching something you dont want her to, turn her face to yours when you say no.

giving some choice to a minor part of the proceedings rather than the major part good too, we let her say if teeth are to be done standing on step, or sat on knee. Am ashamed to say have done them in a headlock before now, as taken to the brink by tantrum...

distraction still effective here, although it sounds like your DS is a bit older.

Thanks for all the advice.

We have also done the teeth cleaning in a headlock on numerous occasions!!

I think one of the main issues is that DS1 is just so changeable - take teeth cleaning as an example, somedays he will do it quite happily, other days he can be persuaded to do it by us offering something in return (Say reading a book or something) or others he will just point blank refuse...due the headlock technique. I have lost count of the number of things he will do happily one day, to refuse the next, to do quite happily again the next....it is so hard to manage as you never know which way he is going to go!

Also, I always do the telling him what we are going to do next - in fact, he is a bit obsessive about it and will repeat it back to you ad infinitum once you have told him - this does seem to have helped a bit but, for example, before bath, he always watches Fireman Sam and Caillou so we say 'watch Fireman Sam, and then Caillou and then bathtime' and he will repeat it, be quite happy about it, switch the TV off and go upstairs quite happily but as soon as the bath is run - he refuses to get undressed and screams blue murder throughout the bath (once I have held him down and undressed him!)

I think this is definitely the hardest bit of parenting so far - I just find it so frustrating!!!!

Wait until you get to the threes and fours . Definately the worst IME