The CC debate (part two!)

[neenztwinz]

The old thread ran out of message space...

interesting stuff ttb... sounds like treating your baby as a small human, which feels right to me...

I'm not planning to fight out the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of this as I strongly believe that parents, and their babies, are individuals and what it perfect for one family could be rubbish for another.

However the best thing I ever did was to stop feeling like anyone/everyone else knew more about my child than me and started to accept my own (very strong) feelings about what I was and wasn't comfortable about.

DaddyJ amongst others may remember my 'what if I'm just a crap mum" post (know it made him laugh...) I was getting so much advice in rl that I really lost myself for a while.

Then pulled myself together and got on with doing things our way. Lots of bf, some co sleeping where necessary, anything really but letting ds cry - as like daddyj's lo it just made him go bonkers.

Finally stopped bf at night at 11 mo just because it felt right. He still comes into our bed most nights but is going longer and longer in his cot.

and yes it was bloody hard and sometimes still is, but its not always a question of being 'open minded' enough to change your ways if your route doesn't go so smoothly. If you are going to go against your own feelings towards your child and make yourself feel horrible, then in m opinion and my experience that is much much worse than sleep deprivation. and thats talking as someone who has been VERY sleep deprived.

I can't believe that I'm even daring to have an opinion on this, anyone would think I've started to believe in myself or something!!!

I found the mothers as managers article interesting, thanks for posting. I have to say though that I disagree with lots of what it says... mainly the fact that it assumes that all mothers who encourage their babies to have some kind of routine are somehow control freaks. Are there no positive reasons to try for a routine (particularly after a certain point in the baby's life?) I think there are... and many of us here don't have anything in common with what the article describes as 'rigid, instruction-manual child care'. Turning the argument on its head, I can as easily imagine an attachment parent having a 'rigid, instruction-manual' approach to childcare, as I can imagine a routine parent... if for example an attachment parent ignores all signs from their baby that they're ready for more of a routine, or that they've outgrown (don't like) the sling, or that they're ready to be weaned... What I'm saying is, regardless of whether one follows a routine or is an attachment kind of parent, the main thing is to THINK for yourself what you feel is best for your child, to be flexible, and of course to be sensitive to your baby's cues. That's the part of the article that I agree with... but I simply don't agree with what's implied, that parents who follow a routine are somehow less sensitive, less in-tune with their baby...

Anyway. Just thought I'd write this to bump this thread up as well, so that we can resurrect it (perhaps!)

Hi all, i'm new on here and found this thread absolutely fascinating.

I have a 2 year old girl and an almost 4 month old boy. With Emma I was very baby led, breast fed on demand, did a bit of co sleeping (mostly in order for me to get sleep rather than Emma's "insistence"). Against all advice Emma constantly fell asleep at the breast at bed time, I'd then creep out of her room with fingers crossed hoping that she wouldn't wake up. During the day she often slept in my arms or I'd take her for a walk in the pram. I can't remember that I ever thought to try and just put her in bed when she was very young to enable her to fall asleep alone. Emma turned 2 at the end of February and only started regularly sleeping through the night around january time. I took a year off work to look after Emma then went back full time for a year whilst her dad took a year off to be with her. She has been a shocking sleeper. She would go to bed around 7pm and fall asleep at the breast (or later, fall asleep drinking milk from a bottle) and we'd creep out of her room. Often she would detect that you were leaving her and would begin to scream, the screaming could go on for 4/5 hours so my husband and I, in order to get some peace would stay in her room until she fell asleep. She would then, without fail wake up between 3am and 4am every night and scream again. Sometimes the screaming would go on until it was time for me to get up for work anyway so that would end it. Other nights she'd scream for an hour or so every time you tried to leave her room, so again, we would end up in her room until she fell asleep. Eventually in November/December 2008 we resorted to controlled crying after speaking to HV and Doc. I was heavily pregnant at the time and couldn't bear the thought of being woken up by 2 children at different times of the night for the forseeable future. The controlled crying was hell, it took a couple of weeks but eventually it worked. Touch wood, Emma now sleeps through every night (except when under the weather) and we actually leave her at bedtimes awake in her roon - this is still a novelty for us!

We were determined not to befall the same fate with out little boy. As soon as he reached 3 months we established a bedtime routine and so far it is working really well. I try and far as possible not to let him fall asleep at the breast and throughout the day read his tired cues and put him in bed while he is still awake.

I have to say the difference between the children is phenominal - I am so much more relaxed during the day and actually enjoy bedtimes with Edward (something I have only just achieved with Emma).

The crux of this is that I think CC has it's place dependant upon the child and their age (and, to some extent their personality too).

Sleep deprivation is the hardest thing when trying to raise children so I think if this method works for you then go for it.

Thanks for reading

Hello,
I'm new to this thread, but really interested and I think its a question so many parents struggle with.
I'm not a child psychologist, but I am a psychologist who works with adults. I know a bit about attachment theory which is one of the things that has come up. I think that the Penelope Leach article is good because it makes a distinction between "one off" type practices and the type of relationship you have with your child in the long term. As I understand it secure attachment comes about as a result of a child learning from zillions of interactions with parents over the first year that s/he has a stable base of support to rely on when needed. It sounds to me a bit simplistic to suggest that a single practice like controlled crying, which as I understand it would only be used in the very short term will "cause" emotional difficulties in later life- however,it makes sense that a child who repeatedly experiences a lack of sensitive response and whose needs/signals are not heard repeatedly may experience difficulties later on. This lack of responsiveness can actually be more subtle than just which techniques you choose to adopt or otherwise. I'm sure there are generally resposive parents out there who used controlled crying once or twice as a one off, but the children still have a general sense of being loved and secure built up from all their other experiences.
NB: I am the mother of a 3 mth old who is a dreadful sleeper and generally very bad at self soothing. I would be reluctant to use controlled crying with her because on the few occassions that I've had to leave her to cry for a couple of minutes she rapidly becomes apoplectic with rage, blue in the face and literally screams (a friend told us that her ear piercing shrieks could be heard out in the street!)- more than I (and the neighbours) can bear!! Also - I think that her problem is that she just can't self soothe. Incidentally - how do you "teach" a child to self soothe without leaving them to cry??