Please Help! 5 year old DS having way too many tantrums for his age.

[chocciedooby]

I love my DS1 so much but he is draining my spirit away
He has always been a very stubborn little boy which has affected many aspects of his life. He is a poor eater, refuses to try any news foods, pretty much ignores myself and dh whenever we ask tell him to do anything ie. brush your teeth, put your shoes on, time for bed, getting into the caer for school etc.
He hates authority and does not respond well to most forms of disciplin.
I have been pulled aside at school 3 times now by his teacher. She says that he doesn't do as he is told and she has to ask him 5 or 6 times. She also said that he doesn't like sitting down.She has 30 years of experience and is struggling at times with him.
I really don't know where I am going wrong and am concerned that his behaviour is affecting ds2 as he is now pushing the boundaries and refusing some foods as well.
I am also expecting another baby next year so my energy levels and emotions are not up to the levels I need them to be.
Is anyone else having problems like this with a child of a similar age? Has anyone got any advice on how best to deal with ds, especially when he refuses to do what we ask?

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I'm sure you've tried all these but this is what I would do (I do have a 5 yr old DS myself so know the age!):

• be absolutely clear and consistent with routines, rewards, sanctions and follow-through. So think carefully about what punishments you are prepared to apply and will make a difference to him and then make sure that you follow through with them. Then he knows exactly where the boundaries are.

• Don't push the new foods. DS is very funny about food and we have a simple repertoire of meals that we know he will eat - they are balanced and so we don't insist he tries anything he doesn't like. If he's getting a healthy diet - choose your battles and don't make this one of them!

• give clear warnings and countdowns - maybe make it into a game. DS likes to have the oven timer set for his two minute teeth brushing - or could he 'race against the clock' to get dressed/into the car - make the routines fun for him.

• don't let him ignore you; get down to his level and make him look at you when you are talking to him. Hold his hands if necessary so he focuses and doesn't dash off.

• what does he really love? not material things necessarily - can good behaviour at school be rewarded with a special outing at the weekends or a 'cinema night' where you snuggle down with him and watch a family film? DH and I have a rule that on cinema night, we're not allowed to work, or iron, or wander off to make a phone call or go on our laptops; we watch the film together and hide behind the cushions together (the last one was Prince Caspian!) Pizza and popcorn too. We do the same thing with Merlin each Saturday and DS loves the idea of watching family TV rather than watching Scooby Doo by himself.

• does he like being the big brother? - can you use him as an ally with DS2? - 'Let's show DS2 how well we can get ready.'

This is probably all rubbish!

Is it affecting his learning in the class room? Has the teacher suggested he is not "accessing the curriculum" (it's a term they love to use when they can't engage a child properly . Does he have friends at school (assuming he is in rec or yr1?) What is he like outside of school in other social situations? Just trying to gage if it's the school environment that does not suit him or whether it's a personality trait - they are all soooooo different.

I have 2 sons and they are chalk and cheese. One is a dream and the other a nightmare The only way we dealt with ds2 was to take away items or events that we knew he would love ie: tea at friends houses, swimming or certain toys. We'd remove them each time for a week or say no play dates for 2 weeks ... it worked eventually. Also, there is a really good 'counting' method called 123-magic by an american guy. Basically, count 1, wait 10 seconds, count 2, wait another 10 seconds. If they still aren't doing as you ask and you get to 3, it's an automatic 'time out' = 1 minute for every year of their life.

Now, I know you'll be thinking "yeah, right", but after a while it works and they get used to being counted. We did it for both our sons and after the first week, I only got to 2. If they do something particularly bad eg kicking, swearing etc it's an automatic time out for 10 minutes. Make sure you explain that you are going to introduce the counting and how it works.

Try it and let me know how you get on. Good luck!

Thank you ladies so much for your advice.
Slayerette, we do have very clear boundaries and rules and our routine is good too but DS doesn't care about boundaries. If he is given 2 choices ie. Put your shoes on or sit in a freezing cold room for 5 minutes he will ALWAYS opt to sit in the freezing cold room.(just an example, we don't actually place our son in a cold room before anyone calls social services).
I haven't pushed the new foods for a long time now.I always present vegetables at the table for anyone to help themselves to but ds1 never does. He also doesn't eat any fruit! Not the best balanced diet! I do sneak the odd bit of veg into his food and he does eat pasta, cereals, breads, cheese, meat etc.Her also drinks fruit juices and milk so I am satisfied with the very very slow progress that we are making there.
I used the timer for getting dressed for school a while ago and it worked wonders for a number of weeks. Then the novelty wore off and he doesn't care about it anymore.He has been on star charts etc. The list of things I have tried is endless.
I will definately be doing the down to his level tip so as he cannot ignore me. Thank you for that one
We also bring ds to the movies or to soft play etc if he gets enough stars for good behaviour during the week but even this doesn't seem to have any affect anymore.AAAARRRRHHHHHHHHHH

brainfreeze thankyou for your advice.Yes DS1 is in junior infants which I think is the same as 1st class primary in the Uk?
His teacher has not said that it is affecting his work at all, in fact she says that his work is good so thats a relief.
I really think its a personality thing I am dealing with here. DS2 is so different normally but some of the bad behaviour is rubbing off on him now I will try the 123 magic tip and let you know how it goes. It will be interesting thats for sure
He doesn't ever swear, don't thnink he has even heard a swear word yet thank goodness. He does however kick and hit me at times. He can go weeks without doing it and then he has days of being aggressive and loses control.

Hi, my ds2 is unbelievably stubborn - to the point where I've seen him deliberately go without something rather than give in!

One thing that works for us is giving the dcs a set number of points - so if we're going to the supermarket (usually stressful) we give them 5 points each. Any whingeing or bad behaviour and they lose a point at a time. If the lose all 5 they lose something they value like telly that night.

Sounds rubbish, but honestly it works for us. I think for my dcs its more immediate than a sticker chart or rewards. Good luck.

Thanks greenlawn.
It's great to hear how everyone else deals with things and to know that I am not alone.

Ladies, Iv'e been using the 123 magic. It has worked some of the time but not others.I will keep going with it though because its early days and anything is an improvement.
DS1 will not take NO for an answer and it has just resulted in him going into time out after hitting me with a grabber stick thing. I am not tolerating aggressive behaviour of any kind and giving instand time out for that. When will my DS understand that No means No????It is so frustrating.

Five year olds do tend to go through another pushing the boudaries phase as they did when they were toddlers. I think it is something to do with starting school and becoming more independent and finding out where the new limits are.

I have done the get down to their level and looking into their eyes as well. They don't like it so it makes the point that you are serious.

DTD2 was still throwing tantrums at age 5, usually one a month. Now at age 6 she hasn't thrown one for a few months.

Madamdeath thanks for your post.Interesting that they push boundaries once more at 5. I do believe a lot will change over the next year but then I always try to stay positive and have been thinking the tantrums would stop for the last 2 years .
I think we are going to see very slow progress here. DS has a tantrum nearly EVERY DAY!!!!!!! I would have no problem dealing with 1 a month. That would be a dream for me right now.

But did he throw several tantrums a day when he was younger? DTD2 was throwing more than 2 a day at age 2-3 then one a day at 3 and gradually less.

Children do develop different skills at different times. I wonder if your son might be great academically and at other things, but maybe is still learning about controlling his emotions. If the number of tantrums is less than say a year ago then he is making progress.

An acquaintance has a son who was throwing huge tantrums at 5. He is now 8 and isn't doing it any more.

Hi Madamdeath. Yes he did have a LOT of tantrums when he was younger. He was the most placid baby and ate everything and then when ds2 came along he was intensely jealous and started tantruming a lot. It has therefore gone of for years so you are right. He has progressed brilliantly in comparison to how he was. I am so grateful to you for pointing that out as it helps to keep me positive.
He didn't have a single tantrum yesterday

Yes, have a similar 5 year old who is bright and doing well at school academically, but non-compliant and forever bursting out with anger and emotion. I too have been pulled aside and cringe at the school gates when the smug-mums-with-perfect-happy-children glance over at my vain attempts to calm him down and get him to even just walk home. I've been advised to have 'firmer boundaries' - wish I'd thought of that!!! Whereas there are others who think it's because I have been too strict - you just can't win! He has a 4 year old brother, and was very jealous when he arrived, and seems never to have forgiven me! Some wiser less judgmental person suggested that his intelligence was imbalanced with his emotional development, and so whilst he may be advanced at some things, struggles with self-control and anger. He is also a champion whinger (sp?) which can drain all the will to live at times, but when he's good ...... There are days when I just blame myself and perhaps a lack of consistency, but we have the time-outs, the withdrawl of privileges and the constant manufacture of home-made sticker charts, with the mantra of 'catch them being good' affirmed daily. I do believe in temperament having a great deal to do with it, as his brother is much easier and less attention-seeking altogether. All I can advise is get a darned good support network, keep up the good work and make sure you get the breaks you deserve for yourself once in a while. Any more advice would be gratefully received, unless you are one of the aforementioned smug-mums-with-perfect-children..........