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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Worried/Aspergers?

106 replies

hmb · 14/03/2003 14:05

I am a little worried about Ds, and I was hoping that Mumsnet might be able to give me some advice. Ds is almost 3. He has some problems with speech development, but it putting together 4-5 word sentences, and 2-3 related sentences. He points at things that interest him, and shouts look! His gross motor skills are fine, he runs, jumps, kicks a ball and climbs very well. He is not interested in colouring, but can hold a pen and scribble. He taks part in imaginative play, but likes to play alone. He is very, very affectionate, and loves to hug, cuddle and be kissed, and he makes excellent eye contact. So far so good. However, he has mild obsessions about trains, cars and planes (these seem to be getting better), eats his food in order, has a massive tantrum in the shoe shop or having his hair cut, sometimes finds it difficult to take part in activities at nursery, doesn't like change (but will go along with it), and likes a routine.

His nursery has flagged up the language problems as a possible reason for his frustration and tantrums, and we are working on them, with some success. However, I am worried that there might be something else that is a problemie the milder side of aspergers. I am on my own at the moment, and all my worries get blown up, out of proportion. I'd be greatful for any feedback

Thanks

OP posts:
Demented · 16/03/2003 23:19

As I have mentioned before on this site we have had worries about DS1, thankfully now all seems to be OK. As Jimjams has said many of these signs are part of a language delay although it is obviously best to get them checked out. My DS1 lost speech, was obsessed with lights/light switches, just grunted for things that he wanted, often didn't play with toys properly, he was inclined to turn cars etc upsidedown and sit twiddling the wheels, was difficult to handle (still is sometimes) and had a hysterical side (still a bit like this but it is more obvious now that he is just a bit excitable). During one of the HV checks he neatly lined up toy teletubbies in his trolley before trundling off with them which set off the first alarm bells it my HV's head (he had never done this before and has never done it since). We were referred to a Community Paediatrician (this was in Scotland which may be of help to Eulalia), Child Development Centre, Speech Therapist, Pre-school Education Home Visiting Service (think this is what it was called anyway) and he was also referred for an indepth hearing test at the hospital (the one with the teddy bears on the wall with flashing eyes). I really feel for you going through this I know what a worry it can be, I feel like I have been to hell and back over what has been a speech delay and I hope this is all it turns out to be for your children. One thing it has made me grateful for is that it really made me think about the implications of having an autistic child (don't want to start the MMR debate here but personally for me has made me realise that I don't want to risk this injection again) and made me realise and appreciate how lucky we are that DS1 is normal and healthy, although he has been called "a child with his own agenda" by the paediatrician, but thankfully it is just his personality we have to deal with and I'm sure he gets this from his Dad.

Jimjams I am in awe of you, what you must go through each day and yet you are so friendly and helpful to everyone on this site and I hope you get the extra help/funding that you are needing (sorry I can't remember the exact details).

Jimjams · 17/03/2003 08:31

The pre-school education home visitng service sounds very like portage...... Demented's description is helpfu;las it shows how children can be showing all the warning signs and then suddenly it all connects and things are fine. One of ds1's SALTS had a child who seemed to fit that description.

I've been pondering some more - as I said before we all have some of the spectrum in us. The difficulty is deciding when it becomes a problem. I think you need to ask yourself "will my child cope at school?" If they will then I would tend to say- don't stress too much and leave it a bit, watch and see what happens- if you think they wouldn't cope then you need to start pushing. DS1 does well in a very understanding mainstream nursery, but they do adapt things for him. He will now sit down at circle time- but as he can't answer "yes" at register time they make him give a "hello" PECS card to the nursery manager when his name is called. In a nursery that didn't alter things for him, and provide him with a great deal of one to one support (whilst we have the funding!) he wouldn't really manage. His key worker was off sick for a couple of days last week so he didn't have one- to - one- and although he was no problem- he just kind of wandered. In a school without the right kind of support he wouldn't be able to join in - or "access the curriculum" as it is now termed. My realisation that he wasn't going to be able to cope at a nursery without help was the thing that made me feel that I really needed to get him assessed.

Thanks for your kind words demented. I'm not always friendly- get me going on the MMR I do remember so well the feeling of dread and how hideous it all was when I knew there was something wrong, but didn't know where to go or what to do. Also absolutely everyone I knew seemed to think I was making it up. I'm very grateful to my friend who said to me when ds1 turned about 2 "yes there obviously is a problem- I didn't see it before but now I think you are right" (I'd been sobbing on her shoulder form about 17 months). I was stil hiding my child development books and autism books etc etc under the bed (dh used to go mad if he saw them). I was lucky that I met a few people on the internet (!) one who was at the same stage as me ("is he isn't he?"-they both were although she went through several diagnoses) and we used to chat on the phone a lot- and then I met a few more - one of whom ended up living around the corner and she has made such a difference.

If anyone has worries of this type I hope that by giving some real life examples of what is a real concern then it might help to put minds at rest.

hmb · 17/03/2003 08:45

What you have said has been a massive help to me. I have taken on board what you have said about the 'can he cope' in school. Ds was having problems in nursery, but these are improving, but have been set back by dh going away, possible for many months. The nursery is being very supportive. I will not be surprised if they ask to keep him in nursery for a term or 2 when the rest of the class move to early years. That way he will have a chance to mature a little more, and will (I hope) then be able to cope. Looking at it rationally ds is just 'young' for his age, rather than 'out of step'.

You are quite right about the continuum. Working in labs I have met dozens of men who would, I am sure, now be diagnosed with AS. We just thought they were a bit different. Many of them used the single mindedness for AS to great effect, and were excellent in their field of research.

OP posts:
Jimjams · 17/03/2003 09:19

My PhD supervisor was so autistic it was unreal - couldn't make eye contact- had no idea what effect his words would have on people, very one track. But on the other hand he had a wife and family and was veyr successful in his career- so the last thing he would have any need for was any sort of diagnosis. If someone can function well in society then they don't need a label. And lets face it all men are a bit autistic aren't they (there is actually a theory that says that autism is an extreme form of maleness)

It may be a good idea for your ds to stay in nursery longer- I am hoping to keep ds1 in until the term after he is 5. At the last LEA meeting positive noises were made to that suggetion so we will see. Glad you've been a bit reassured- and I think you've hit the nail on the head- if he's a bit slower rather than "out of step" then you don't really need to worry. IME a lot of very academically bright boys seem to need until about age 8 to get it together. DH was considered slow until age 8 but the exam results etc that he went on to get were ridiculous. I know several other male friends who were the same- and a few boys now as well. When we were children they did use to say "oh lazy boys" and I think there's some truth in that.

hmb · 17/03/2003 13:04

I agree with you Jimjams. I read a little on ASD when I did my first school placement (I'm doing a PGCE, and I worked with two boys with AS. It struck me that the techniques that I used with the boys were the same as the ones I have to use to get Dh's attention! And all of Dh's brothers are the same. They are all employed in the physical science/maths areas, all facinated by computers etc. Interestingly MIL tells me that Ds closely resembles Dh and his brothers when they were small. I guess Dh's genes won out!

Your Phd supervisor sounds like lots of the guys I was at university with. And 'different' or not, they are all now highly sucessful.

The wait for hearing test is dreadful. I hope it gets sorted soon.

OP posts:
Eulalia · 22/03/2003 22:57

Have only just got back to this thread. Thanks again Jimjams.

More on ds - yes some word loss - first word was "button" at age 1 which he used for a few months then lost it for about 18 months. Other words have been the same - he would have favourite words for a few months and enjoy saying them particularly sometimes loudly or quickly but then lose interest. He doesn't seem to have favourite words as such now as he tends to want to use sentences.

The echolalia is bothering us. He constantly asks himself questions eg "would you like a drink?" but then out of the blue one day last week he said "please can I have a drink? not only used "I" but "please" too! However he didn't say it again. The same day he also pointed at a tree and said "like a ladder" I assume he meant the shape of the branches - seemed a bit odd.

He does lots of babbling but not like a toddler -it's vocalising with all the right intonations, voice rising upwards as if asking questions and gesticulating. In the midst of this there may be snatches of one or two words.

He is going through a phase of saying "no" when you ask him anything but this doesn't necessarily mean no in response to the question. It often means "I don't want to respond to that" and he generally tends to want to ask for things first rather than you ask him if he wants it, if you see what I mean. eg I ask "would you like a story?" he says "no" but 2 seconds later he then reaches for the book saying "have a story now" or repeating my question. It is quite a tiring way of doing things but I am getting used to it.

The lack of 'rapport' if that is the right term to use is what bothers me, just being able to ask him something, get a response and then for me to say something else, ie have a conversation. Every time after playgroup I ask him what he did that day and he always says the same thing "painting" just one word and if I ask him what else he did he just shakes his head.

The routines aren't too cumbersome and no more repeat tantrums - one routine is he gives dh a kiss (when he wants to not if asked) shouts goodnight to dh at exactly the same spot on the threshold of the door, he goes up the stairs stops and bumps the 2nd bedroom door with his bum (why? I don't know?), then goes into the bedroom round the bed the same way etc. However other times he seems quite flexible.

He did go through a phase of spinning things on the top of the laundry basket but has stopped this.

Today we went to the park with some friends and he ran off on his own twice a long way right out of my sight and was totally unconcerned as to where I was and didn't seem to realise that I might be worried about him.

On a brighter note he is so much easier with our cat really stroking him gently. He can be like this with dd too but other times he pushes her aside particularly if she gets in his way. I have to watch too with other children when we are out as he doesn't seem to be very considerate.

That's all I can think of just now. Re the MMR - I left ds till he was 20 months looking for signs of autism (although I wasn't really concerned at all about him) and when he seemed OK I went for it. I can't say there was any dramatic change in him afterwards. Whatever the problem is (if there is one) I would say it was unrelated but I could be wrong?

Eulalia · 22/03/2003 23:01

Demented - glad to hear everything is fine with your son? How old is he - when did his speech seem to all come together?

I am not sure if we have a home visiting service - it is some sort of Child Development Unit attached to our local community hospital but can't say for sure as I've not had the appointment through yet - must chase them up for this.

Demented · 23/03/2003 23:06

Eulalia, my DS1 is 4y 2m now, concerns were first raised at his two year check with all the appointments kicking in at about 2y 4m, by the time he was three things were getting better and it was evident that he was making progress, signed off about this stage (I think 3y 3m or so)by the pre-school home visiting service, she had recommended a Playfriend (some sort of help scheme for one-to-one contact in playgroup/nursery) for one session a week at playgroup but no longer felt this was necessary. The Community Paediatrician signed him off just prior to his fourth birthday as he reached the conclusion that DS1 has "nothing wrong with him he can give a name to" (his words not mine) and was just a child with his own agenda who wasn't going to be dictated to by anyone, would do things when he was ready. The SALT saw him about the same time and was about to discharge him as his speech was only slightly behind a child the same age's speech and then he started to stutter as we were getting ready to go out the door. He has to go back in the next few weeks (waiting for the appointment) to have it checked out again, he still has the stutter but I personally don't think it is worth worrying about as it tends to be when he is excited or trying to explain something.

Anyway sorry for the rambling, I really hope you get the answers you need for what it's worth I did find the appointments helpful as they could at times see improvements that I had missed and that was encouraging, hope it all works out OK, please keep us posted.

Jimjams · 25/03/2003 12:09

Eulalia

Sorry I've had a really hectic couple of days so I haven't had a chance to log on.

Your ds is still very little and there is a good chance that everything will "click" and things will come together. He sounds a lovely little boy. You are on the waiting lists for appointments which is great, and I wouldn't get too strssed about chasing them up becuase ime they aren't that much use- even if there is a problem!!! They usually just get you onto another waiting list. They don't really do much. it may eb worth checking to see whether speech and language have any drop in clinics where you could maybe get some ideas for things to do at home.

What I would do in your position is start to read up as much as possible on things like dyspraxia and autism, aspergers etc. From this you'll probably be able to diagnose yourself- if indeed there is a diagnosable (word??) problem. Reading up will quite probably ut your mind at rest - and itf not it's even more important to read up. The reason I say this isn't to scare you, it's just that if there does turn out to be a problem the professionals tend to be so bloody negative they can turn you into a despondent wreck overnight. They offer no help when there is a lot that can be done to help with language and sensory problems or motor problems or whatever (don't hold out on the NHS though).

A good and very thorough book which covers all sorts of conditions is "A positive approach to autsim" by Stella Waterhouse. Don't be out off by the title it goes into OCD, dyspraxia, dyslexia- the lot! And above all it is positive. From the medical profession you tend to get the view that which is "oh your child can't point properly/ speak properly/" etc etc whereas the book will demonstrate that actually your child can't point becuase sensory problems mean they can't see properly and they can't speak properly becuase there's a time delay between you saying something and them hearing it or whatever. I'm not recommending this book becuase having read your description I think your ds would be given an asd dx, I just think it's a great book that covers lots of different broad probelms, which often have a common sensory problem.

If you think your ds may primarily have a language problem there are two good books by Thomas Sowell- "Late Talking Children" and "The Einstein Syndrome- bright children who talk late" Both are chock a block full of case histories.

Stella's book also talks about diet- if your ds is a bit keen on gluten containing foods (mine just used to eat bread) or milk products I might be able to give more help there. Also things like having had lots of antibiotics or having red ears (the whoe ear- often just one glows bright red) can be an indication that diet may help.

Becuase your son sounds like he may have a language type problem- it may be worth having a look at www.hanen.org and then searching for their "more than words" prorgamme. It is aimed a young children with communicaiton problems. I haven't done the programme but I have completed a course which was bases on hanen ideas and I've browsed their more than words book- it looks very good and very practical- lots of very useful and practical idead. Helps to deal with things like tantrums, frustrations at not being understood and difficult behaviours as well.

Anyway hope giving you loads of books isn't scary- I'm not suggesting that your son has a problem- just if you do want to read up a bit I always think it's better to start on the positive books - and I wouldn't trust the health professionals to offer any positive help at all (obvioulsy there are exceptions)!

BTW- is the echololalia in context? It does sound as though his understanding of language is pretty good.

Eulalia · 27/03/2003 20:55

Thanks Demented - its good to hear from people who have been through the same thing. Hope the stutter sorts itself out but does just sound like it is arising from excitablity.

Many thanks again Jimjams. Yes the echolalia is usually in context which is when he wants something but seems unable to ask in a normal way but it could just be as you say that he isn?t sure of putting the language together properly.

Today was another visit to my parents and it couldn?t have been more different. He had a very long sleep last night and seemed so refreshed. He asked to press the doorbell and then let himself in and even smiled at my mother and was chattering away, albeit a lot of ?nonsense? most of the time but he was much more outward going than usual. I can?t remember if I said that he is often just on the right side of being hyperactive and tends to tire himself out which obviously doesn?t help.

He?s never been on a course of antibiotics or had any illnesses apart from the usual coughs and colds. Also he?s not big on milk ? he didn?t really have any till age 2 (lots of breastfeeding) and now will only have a couple of glasses a day. He does like bread, pasta etc but doesn?t eat a huge amount.

Thanks for all the references ? will have a look ? and also for the warning on the possible lack of help from the ?specialists? ? certainly the Health visitors are a bit of a waste of time.

This probably sounds awful but part of me does want him to have some kind of label on his ?condition? so that I can explain to people if he is behaving badly. He does tend to push some of the younger children at a group we go to. But I don?t want to discipline him if he genuinely can?t help behaving in a certain way. On the other hand I don?t want him to get away with things which he knows are wrong.

I guess on the whole I probably do a good enough job as I know him so well. He has started saying ?I?m being a good boy mummy? so I am sure he appreciates good behaviour. It?s so nice to hear him say these things after so long of nothing. From what you say of your own experiences even if there is something ?wrong? such as autism then there are many positive aspects too.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted.

Jimjams · 27/03/2003 21:08

Hi Eulalia- glad to hear things went well today. If he is a bit on the hyperactive side immaturity can often go with that- so it may just be that.

Did I mention fish oils? Either eyeQ, or efalex or even plain old cod liver (be careful some are a bit high in mercury- you need one which says it has been tested for that) or flax oil or hemp oil. All those oils tend to be very very good for all sorts of conditions- they've made a huge difference to ds1s dyspraxia. It can take about 6 weeks to see a difference. We give ds1 a teaspoon a day. They do taste revolting so it can be interesting getting it into them. We pour it on ds1's toast in the morning and then pile on the honey.

Hope things carry on going well. And I do know what you mean about wanting an explanation. Getting the dx was a relief for us (I'd ben expecting it for about a year by the time it was given).

Do keep us updated!

Demented · 27/03/2003 21:46

Eulalia, glad things were a better today, my DS1 needs loads of sleep too, very often much more than he ever takes.

Jimjams I had forgotten all about the fish oils, I was going to try them a few months back, must check if they have them in our Boots. It is interesting what you say about the glowing red ear, my DS1 has this from time to time although I assumed it was due to colds and things as the people who did his hearing test at the hospital thought he was probably suffering from a bit of glue ear during the winter months but I think I will keep an eye on it just to check it always coincides with illness, didn't know it could be a sign of food allergy, you are a mine of information Jimjams!

Eulalia · 14/04/2003 22:35

An update on ds. He's been talking more recently. Quite suddenly asking for things properly and being quite polite saying 'please' too which we've never stressed. He's saying 'mummy' all the time whereas before he'd rarely actually refer to me directly. Also he makes coments such as 'did you have a nice dinner?'. In other words making conversation! It's still a long way off what a 'normal' child would do but it is a start and shows he is moving forward rather than regressing.

My mum taped a programme about autism and we feel pretty sure he does have a degree of it but it is not far along the spectrum. Now that I am talking about it some friends have said they have thought this but didn't like to say. I didn't realise it was that obvious but it is hard to look at your own child objectively at times. I just wonder now if I should wait for an 'official' diagnosis before mentioning it to others. I sometimes feel I ought to explain his lack of social skills with other children, particularly when he is being a bit pushy but part of me thinks it is no-one else's business. Also he's no worse than any other boy of his age with pushing and shoving.

In the meantime still no word about his appointment - ho hum!

Demented · 14/04/2003 22:58

Eulalia good to hear your DS has been talking more lately, hopefully things are starting to fall into place. I hope you get your appointments soon. Personally I would only say that your DS has a language delay if you feel you have to explain, you could mention to others that as he can't communicate as well as others in his age group he gets frustrated and this is how he expresses himself/communicates. With my DS1 I was recently speaking to one of his playgroup leaders who I had not discussed DS1's problems with (the leader who I did discuss things with left and obviously hadn't informed the others) told me she did not realise that DS1 was having any problems but now she understands some of his behaviour when he first joined the playgroup, she said that he tended to lash out whenever something wasn't going his way but now he communicates with the other children much better, this has coincided with his speech improving.

We are going to see the SALT tomorrow and I am hoping that DS1 will be discharged this time!

Keep us posted, it's really nice to hear that he is going forwards!

Jimjams · 15/04/2003 08:50

eulalia- great news! If you feel an explanation is needed just say he has a communication disorder or delay. I still use that quite often. Sometimes the word "autistic" doesn't really help as you just get "I don't care how good he is at colouring in he shouldn't be behaving like that" Now if it's a old person I just tend to say "he can't talk" and leave it at that.

Great news. I wouldn't worry too much about the appointment- perhaps just ring to make sure you are on the list. It sounds like he's getting the help he needs anyway- if you start to feel a bit at sea and like you need more help then start hassling again.

bells2 · 15/04/2003 09:39

Eulalia, I'm sorry to hear of your concerns your DS's development. Your latest update does however sounds very encouraging - best of luck to you both.

Demented · 15/04/2003 23:45

Just thought I would let you know that DS1 has been discharged by the SALT today. I think his indepth description of the rabbit our cat caught with it's intestines hanging out and then telling the SALT that we all have intestines and the food goes round and round in them then poos come out may have clinched it (big difference from the boy she first saw). I was very pleased DS1 was discharged but also very grateful for all the help received from them, I felt that if something had been wrong with DS1 the SALT we have been seeing would have been a great help. She did say that if we experience any more problems with his speech just to phone her, thankfully the stutter seems to have gone now.

Anyway enough rambling, Eulalia I just hope that you get the kind of help and support I have received for DS1 and that your appointments come through soon so you can start getting things sorted out. All the best.

Eulalia · 17/04/2003 23:01

Demented - great news! I had to laugh reading your ds's description of intestines.

I finally got a phone call a couple of days ago and ds will be seen next month. Will let you know how he gets on.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

tigermoth · 18/04/2003 16:12

eulalia, hope the meeting goes well. I know what you mean when you say it's difficult to be objective and decide what is normal and what is a bit OTT. I can feel like that too. I know my son so well (and other children of the same age a lot less well) that it's so difficult to compare. I sometimes feel that I am so used to having an active/lively three year old son that things go straight over my head (shouting in public, running around like maniacs, both son and me) that I am unshockable and don't see what is unaccepatable anymore. Or conversely, that I am anticipating him being naughty so much that he picks up on it and obliges.

One fairly hopeful thing, though, my oldest son was EXTREMELY lively - more so than my youngest IMO - and I wondered if he would ever calm down. So did everyone else who knew him. Now aged nearly nine, he has calmed down such a lot. He's still not a docile child, but he's not a fraction as hyper as he was. Characteristics that I thought were deeply ingrained in him at three and four have naturally diminished as he's grown up. Taking this example, you never know, whatever worries you have for your son at present may just diminish in time.

Eulalia · 29/04/2003 18:49

Thanks tigermoth.

I need a bit of moral support. ds has been getting more aggresive - he's been pushing other children in his Under 5's Group. He is one of the few oldest ones there and tends to pick on the children aged about 2. However it has only ever been pushing and he doesn't bite, scratch, punch or kick and he never really hurts anyone. He is also a bit aggresive at Playgroup but not so much as all the children are the same age. Again he's never done anything bad enough to result in a report being made back to me.

I visited a frend last week who has a boy aged 2 and my ds was doing the usual. He only pushed him a couple of times and took a few toys off him. Nothing unusual for any child really. My friend does know of my son's referall for his behaviour. Anyway my friend sent an email last night saying that she is concerned in case her ds gets concussed or hurts himself from being pushed onto the ground. We were outside and he did fall (on his bum) onto concrete when ds pushed him.

CONCUSSED! from a push! I think not. I told her I thought she was overeacting, she is wrapping her son in cotton wool and that I've never had a problem with anyone else. I've said I don't want to see her at least till after ds's appointment. She was also patronising about my abilities to control him.

Have I over-reacted do you think? I feel she doesn't know what she is talking about not having any knowledge of the issues involved. Also she is looking for problems that don't exist. If I felt that my ds would hurt any other child I'd not let him play with him. However I'd like to know if autistic children (I am self diagnoising him here obviously) can be aggresive towards others. Should I be worried in case he really does hurt someone. Like I say his Playgroup haven't flagged anything up and they'd obviously tell me because of all the safety regulations.

jimjams - you have another child. How is your son him with him? My dd is 12 months and ds is always pushing her away. A lot of the time he is being bossy telling her not to do things but sometimes he just does it out of badness. Again he's never hurt her. I don't know how to discipline him as whatever technqiue I use it doesn't work. Other times he is quite gentle with her and with others and will give toys. It is just the unpredictable nature of his behaviour that I find difficult to cope with.

Feeling a bit hacked off this evening - I could do without people ahving a go at me and givingme more problems and no constructive help!

Sorry I just needed to rant ....

Jimjams · 29/04/2003 20:57

Hi Eulalalia

No you didn't over react. It is so easy for friends to look in from the outside and really not understand. I have very few friends with normal children left unfortunately- just couldn't handle their opinions anymore. As an example my MIL used to give me merry hell because ds1 couldn't use a spoon at 18 momths. Having had a "normal" ds2 I now see how easy it is for children to use spoons- you don't teach them they just do it. So MIL didn't have a clue.

Your friend is over reacting - but then lots of mothers of 2 year old do. Hopefully she will become more understanding. But some people don't - and if it becomes too difficult you just have to let them go- without any feelings of guilt on your part. It's so easy for people to judge, judge, judge. You will get to stage though where you know what he needs and how he works- and you can get some smug relief from the knowledge that your "friend wouldn't know what had hit her if she tried to cope! If any friendshio becomes too difficult- bin it- you don't need it. Sounds harsh- but I've had this conversation with mums of other asd kids.

Aggression- can go with ASD. usually there is a cause. For example I wouldn't let ds2 sit on the stairs as it drives ds1 to distraction- really upsets him and I would worry that he would pull ds2 off. Otherwise he's not really aggressive- he's very passive- actually I have more of a problem with ds2 beating him up! If ds2 gets too close - or to much in his space then ds1 will tend to move away. Very occasionally he will push him.

I have a friend who;s daughter can become aggressive. It's not really aggression- it;s just that suddenly everything becomes too much and she will lash out. It is totally unpredicatble. Often ds2 has been at the receiving end. My friend will give her dd time out- but there isn't much she can do. Last time it happened my friend did say this is why we can't see normal people" No it is hard- ask for advice at your appointment.

Sometimes when I'm out and about I find myself telling ds1 off for a bit of autistic behaviour (that isn't naughty and isn't affecting anyone) just because it's expected. Now I tend not to- I've developed a thick skin.

Sorry I can't be more up beat Eulalia- it is hard. Unfortunately some friends don't get it- but those that do are rocks- so keep them!

If you really think you're looking at ASD tyoe behavuiour you may find some of the online support groups god, I recommend Aut-UK and chatters. Chatters is on MSN now- I can find out the AUT-UK address if you are interested. I joined both before we had a dx- and they were invaluable. It just meant I wasn't alone.

And finally big hugs- it is hard enough without friends criticising.

MABS · 29/04/2003 21:03

Once again I find myself echoing what JimJams has so eloquently said. You are really not overreacting, try and keep your chin up - I know how hard that is sometimes. Take care.

maryz · 29/04/2003 21:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Demented · 29/04/2003 22:35

Eulalia, you've had some really good advice here I just wanted to say that I think your friend is out of order and you did not over-react. If your DS is having language problems, whatever their cause, he may be using the pushing and shoving as a way of expressing himself, perhaps trying to get the point over that he wants that toy, etc.

I know what a worrying time this can be (I drove myself crazy and self diagnosed DS1 too, although I got it wrong) and the last thing you need is friends, however well meaning, saying this sort of thing.

Jimjams · 30/04/2003 13:46

Good point from Maryz. Ds1 wil get very upset if ds2 takes something he had his eye on.

Another problem friends have faced is other children winding their child up- child hits out and then gets the blame. They don't have the socail ability to avoid that.

A lot of the children at ds1s nursery are very understanding. There is a book he likes as it has a piccy of a swing in it. One little girl always saves it for him to look at each morning!