ds behaviour is getting worse not better, any other ideas please

[yawningmonster]

I will try to be quick as it is morning here and I need to leave for work. DS is 4 and has always been a very reactive little boy and I have found parenting him to be a real challenge. I am 19wks pregnant at the moment and it is Summer here so is hot and ds gets hayfever which all contributes to behaviour.
DS has added biting to his list of other challenging behaviours, it is almost always me that gets bitten when I won't allow him to do what he wants etc but has also involved other children occasionally. When it occurs at home he gets put in his room immediately and no tv for the rest of the day. When it happens out and about he gets put in the car in his seat (luckily he cannot undo his belt yet though it is a struggle to strap him in....if I don't strap him in he will rip pieces off the car and try to escape) He gets one chance out and about to calm down and come back into the situation then if he bites again it is straight home and into time out. He is strong, he is heavy and he is very determined and it is getting increasingly difficult for me to put him into a time out but at the same time I don't want to be his target of aggression and I can't allow him to stay near other children if he is biting them. It is happening more and more over the last few weeks and he now goes around saying "You have to do everything I want or I will bite you" I ignore this and then when he does bite follow through as said. Help...this is wearing me down, he has other challenging behaviours also but at the moment this is the one that is really hard going.

Have you tried asking your gp/hv for some advice?? They may have come across this before and be able to suggest things that have worked in the past.

Can I also suggest teaching him to play on his own. This may be as simple as during a game sayinf "I am going to make a cup of tea, carry on until I get back" tantrums as a result can lead to time out and eventually he will learn and will increase the amount of time that he spends on his own. Its just that reading your thread it sounds as if he is taking it really badly when you make him be independant etc. Try making him aware he is a big boy too i.e Can you help mummy please by taking this cup into the kitchen, thus giving him different 'grown up attention'.

I am suggesting these things as this sounds a bit similar to my dd2 (She wasnt quite as bad) and these things EVENTUALLY worked for her. In the mean time carry on with what you are doing you sound like you love your son very much and really want to help.

It doesn't sound like punishment is working well here - you're punishing him, he's punishing you.

Do you get angry when he bites you? If so, you need to show him a calm way of dealing with anger, model the behaviour you want him to display.

Any punishment or reward at this age needs to be immediate and relevant - no TV for the rest of the day is unrelated and way too long a punishment.

Is he getting positive attention from you?

Sounds like you are being amazing to stay so focused and have consistent strategies. I have experience of very excitable son, aged now 6. His behaviour is still bad, screaming punching on occasion, having hysterical fits when things go wrong (ie: not invited to party, not having right outfit for school, not being in the park when his friend's there). I think the following things help. Very short time-out consequences. Longer ones he forgets why he's there and starts getting in a new state. Appealing to his 'good' side - ie; activities and conversations which draw him in and interest him, in my child's case, conversations about transport, quick baking sessions (very quick like pouring flour mixing icing, watching pancake) lego or duplo for 4 year old(NOT blooming playmobil)READING hypotic factual story. Drama games, pretending to be things often quite outrageous exciting thing like dragons or monsters, or astronauts (with story attached). Sounds very exhausting, but then he sort of went off into world of his own, and was a bit more motivated not attack and show off. They won't change overnight, but the biting sounds like an attentionseeking strategy/ and expression of physical energy. GOOD LUCK.

Yawning I feel for you. Its so hard when you're pregnant as well. Hope you are ok.

I think when you have challenging kids its really important to remember that they are JUST LIKE THAT. Its not your fault. Obviously you can manage their behaviour and do your best to help them behave well, but there is an underlying spirit there that will be a good thing in the long run.

Am I rambling? I have just always hated that feeling that parents with easy kids can sit back and take the credit, whereas parents with challenging kids are full of guilt and blaming themselves.

I know you are doing the best you can. It sounds really really hard.

Another thought -does DH do rough and tumble with him? I made my DH do a rough and tumble session on the bed every evening and DS loved it and it really helped him to burn off some energy and learn about safe fighting.

Think the biting toy might be a good idea too.

thanks for all the suggestions
claw3 I will give the chart a go but sounds alot like a sticker chart to me which doesn't work well with him.
singyswife we don't have hv's here and gp just says to keep doing what I am doing. Believe me I have tried to teach him to play on his own, oh how I have tried to no avail, he doesn't really play even when I am with him he just directs me to do it all for him...when I try to get him engaged he gets angry.
Notquitecockney no I don't get angry, I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I have shouted at him. He gets a lot of positive attention, he gets a lot of one to one time, I try to follow his lead with what he wants to do, I try to give him positive choices and real praise and acknowledgement eg "Thanks for doing XXX that really helped me" as if I was talking to his dad (i.e not talking down to him) I ban the tv as I said it is only an hour anyway and I have in the past banned tv for months at a time as ds can spiral out of control if he watches too much. I have given in to letting him watch a little at the moment due to being pregnant and exhausted and just needing a break. It is also one of the few things that he seems to mind missing out on, he knows it is a treat to watch it.
Swanriver I only time out until he calms down so the time frame really depends on him, if I let him out of the room while he is still screaming and throwing things then he just launches himself at me for more biting and hitting. He is starting to calm down a little faster each time and so allowed out a lot sooner, I do lots of activities with him every day but do find that when he is attacking me he cannot be distracted into anything else until he calms down.
I know that there is something I am doing wrong but I have tried and tried and I don't know what it is. Whenever I ask for help I get told to do the same things over and over and maybe I just implement them wrong or something I don't know.

maybe I need to get rid of tv again and see if that helps after a while, I just sometimes need some time to get the dinner done. I don't do other housework when he is awake as he just doesn't cope with it and destroys the place but we have to eat. I guess I could start making something the night before and just reheat it. I sound like a moaning mini but by the time he goes to bed I am done in and find it hard to manage the housework let alone cooking a meal as well but could give this a go. Maybe notquitecockney is right and the attention I do give him is not enough or not positive enough.

shells thank you, I will try the biting toy. DH doesn't do rough and tumble with ds as ds has never liked it, he doesn't really like being touched very much. During the week dh only sees ds for about 15minutes for story time before sleep and is away alot during weekends. When he is home, we either do something all as a family or I do things with ds while dh works on the cars etc. DH is pretty good with him when he does spend time with him but ds generally asks me to be with him rather than dh even when given the option.

i'm thinking of buying these for ds. he chews his clothes, which i know is a completely different issue, but i wonder if your ds is seeking sensory stimulation rather than attention with his biting?

have you thought about posting on the special needs forum? i'm not suggesting that your ds has special needs, just that you might find other mums there with older children who bite, and they might have some different ideas. it's very hard for you if you are trying things that are not having any impact.

ahhh... ignore mw. i see you've been posting a lot longer than i have sorry.

Hi there ,seems you have lots of good advice.
Acouple of things struck me~
Is he a bit too old and big to restrain in a car seat or time out?If he doesn't like being touched much it could be making him really angry and it can sometimes result in an unseemly scuffle.I prefer to use the "hands off" time out when you just tell him he is in time out for 4 mins[as he is 4]and carry on cooking etc.Wth my son I ask him to sit down but if he doesn't I carry on calmly then atend of 4 mins tell him time out is over and it was for [reason].If he is clever he will get it and its a bit humiliating being physically moved against your will.
Also he seems to be in control or in charge somehow.Everthing is revolving around him,his behaviour and punishment.
I don,t think at his age lengthy discussions are helpful its just giving him more attention.
Would it be worth trying to take a step back from all this focus and doing all your routine as a family in a friendly calm way without talking about bad behaviour and if he is aggressive walk away and get on with things and distracthim after few mins into good behaviour.What you are doing at the moment in't working really and you don't want it to get too ingrained.
Try new approach if doesn't work consider assessment by deveopmental paeds or child psychologist.
I feel you're locked in a battle with him and noone wants to be hit by their child.I think in view of his very young age try to minimise the fuss about this and def stop the physical time outs its making it worse.
Also once hes been told he shouldn't have done it,don't mention it again.