*HELP* My 2 year old son refusing to eat dinner EVERY night, until he is put in cot and then asks for dinner, and also waking up thru night and refusing to go back to sleep.....SCREAMS the house down until lifted into our bed.....please help!

[Angiebabes]

My 2 year old has started refusing dinner every night, wont eat and it results in a temper and he is put in his cot, he screams until he realises he actually is hungry and then asks "to eat dinner" but this performance every evening is grinding me down, I should add he eats his food perfectly when he is at his Gran's without the need for a tantrum.

The other issue is that he goes to bed fine, as he has done since he was 4 weeks old, but is now waking anywhere between 1am and 5am, shouting for Daddy or Mummy, and then SCREAMING the house down if we don't lift him, we have tried the techniques of going in re-assuring and leaving, and of re-assuring and staying in room, but he just will not go back to sleep and the minute you leave the room all hell breaks loose....my DH and I are like half shut knives and it is affecting my DH at work, it ends up with DS being lifted into our bed and DH sleeping in spare room, as DS takes over our bed so not enough room for 3!! We cannot let him scream at 3am in morning, we have next door neighbours!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP

at 2.10 is he ready for a bed rather than a cot. A big boys bed of his own.

He already sleep in a bed, yours, right. so hes not likley to roll out accidently.

For what it's worth, I wonder if the room is too cold and 3am is the classic time for cold wakenings. IME with both my kids, 'the right temperature' and a grobag alone just doesn't cut it.

Hi, his room temperature thingy says its warm enough, and he has long sleeved PJ's and a growbag, and he always feels warm enough, never feels cold when he wakes.

We are planning to convert his cot into a bed after Christmas, as we didn't want to upset his normality before a busy Christmas, we have bought him new duvet, covers, curtains etc all in his fav In the night Garden stuff, and are going to convert his room from a "baby" friendly almond colour to a "big boy's" blue after Christmas, he sleeps sound at my Mums, right thru from 7pm till 8am, with no problems thru the night, this is what I cannot understand....

Morning all, well same thing happened last night, but at 1am!! We tried the sleeping besie him in room, as suggested, but he wouldn't settle, so brought him into our bed, and he then proceeded to say he wanted to go in his cot!!! Grrrrrrrrrr

I slept in bed with him, an then he said he wanted Daddy, so we swapped and Daddy stayed in bed with him, then he wanted Mummy....can you see a pattern forming here?? When DH told him to cuddle in and go to sleep he took a hissy cos Mummy wasn't there!!

So I ended up sleeping in the bed too.....even though KS bed not enough room for 3 of us comfortably, got hit in face, kicked in ribs and it took him almost 2 hours to fall asleep...

My DH and I are like half shut knives this morning, I suffer rarely from migraines but recently I have had a few and it's cos I'm being deprived of sleep and I know that's what's causing them.

Happy days!

My dd did this till she was 5.5 years old. I had another baby when she was 3, the baby slept thru, the 3,4 5 year old still kept doing this, keeping us all up.
She is 11 now and still has trouble with sleep. (still up at 11pm most nights)

If I were you I would get him a toddler bed, and then he can just wander to you in the night, and wander back if he wants. That means that when he says I wanna go back to my bed, he can just GO, and you can mumble uh huh night night then. Leave the landing light on, make sure stairgates are in place, theres nothing dangerous he can get at, and you can nod off again. You cat nap as a parent anyway, so if theres any odd noises, you will wake up.

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mood-Butterfly-Sleep-Light-that-Changes-Colour-NEW_W0QQitemZ220321671612QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZUKHomeGardenDecorativeAccentsLE?hash=item220321671612&trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3 A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

This is battery operated and theres a switch for it to last half an hour..you could get him to go back to bed to watch the butterfly and hopefully it would lull him to sleep.

You have my sympathy.

Ds went through a stage of wanting to come in our bed at that age, like you it stopped everyone else sleeping.
We made him a bed by the side of ours and told him if he wanted to come in then he could sleep there.
He was happy and we weren't disturbed, also a bribe of a big Buzz Lightyear if he stayed in his own bed for a week.

I feel for you so much Angie, I think sitting bull has given you some great advice on not using the cot as punishment, my first thought was to take the sides off the cot and put him in a bed, make him feel grown up and in control of how he sleeps. Last nights antics are definately about control and you need to take back the control, there is some great advice on this thread and you and your dp need to sit down and decide together how you are going to deal with this and then absolutely stick to it, so if you agree he doesnt come into your bed you both stick to it. My one piece of advice I would like to add is that books have always been a huge part of my bedtime routines, I fall asleep reading a book as do all my dc, if they ever woke in the night I would give them a book for comfort and to reinforce that it was sleep time. Another one is (easier in a bed) when you say goodnight or settle them down take up all the room in their bed and squish them over until they say you go back to bed mummy, ds does it every night. Good luck, nothing worse than not getting your sleep.

Oh and can you talk to your neighbours and say we are sleep training for the next few nights really sorry if it disturbs you, he has got you over a barrel on that one.

I may have missed this, but I would def NOT put him in his cot when he has a tantrum.
My kids are older, but I don't like the idea of using their beds/ bedrooms as punishment, as I want it to be a safe place.

I seem to recall mine getting more fearful at this age...does he have a nightlight? Or a bear that lights up when he needs it?

Also, it seems like you are allowing alot of negotiation in the middle of the night. I always let mine in with me if they are scared or whatever, but it is generally on my terms. No messing around - ever!

Btw - is he toilet trained? As that is also the time that my dcs used to get up to the loo?

If he is still in a night nappy then perhaps that's what's waking him and he's reached the stage when he should get up and use the loo and then be put back to bed?

Just a thought....

Hi all

He has a wee clock that shows when it is sleep time, and is set for showing morning time, it has a night light on it.

I have no problem at all of him coming into bed if unwell or scared, but this is becoming a nightly event and for what reason??? This is the problem. My DH is afraid he might lose his job as he is so tired every day, and his job involves lots of concentration, and right now he just isn't running on full cylinders!

My son was a great sleeper until recently, he had been unwell with the cold and a bad cough, so when he woke we quite happily brought him into our bed, as then I could make sure he was ok, but now he is better I feel he is pushing us.

He may be 2 yrs 10 mths, but he aint daft!!!!

Can anyone advise how they show their LO they have done something wrong, obviously he is far too small for naughty steps etc, and we are now taking on the advice given of not putting him in his cot... but he does need to learn right from wrong, even at this age, so what tips do you have????

The classic...

Firstly never ask "why?" he did something bad - if he know he wouldn't do it...then

Get down to his level

eyeball him

give him the blank cold cross mummy face

say "no!" loudly and firmly (no shouting)

Say " we do NOT do that (ie hitting/spitting/swaering) in this family"

Stand up, turn on your heel and waltz out of the room with no eye contact.

When he comes to find you be pleasant but be prepared to chat about how you felt (not what he did)- along the lines of "when you hit mummy I feel balh blah blah and it's not very nice is it?"

And if he's had a tantrum try and chat about it after the event has blown over - "you were cross weren't you? I expect you felt all horrid inside?" and suggest "next time how about standing there shouting "I'm cross mummy! I really really am" - that is what big boys do"

And think very carefully what is not allowed and why.

So no to hitting/kicking/biting.

But re-arranging the furniture to make a den? That's fun not naughty.

No to pulling cat's tails and drawing on the walls

But splashing water all over the bathroom while having a bath - prob ok - you can wipe it up.

No to hitting friends with toys or snatching

But yes to putting his favourite toys away BEFORE friends arrive to avoid conflict

etc etc

Hmm, have had situations like this with all 3 of my boys. The waking up could have started for any number of reasons, and now because he gets tucked up in bed with you it's become a habit and will continue for as long as you keep it up.

For the sake of your relationship with your husband, and for the sake of your ds, you need to introduce a sticker chart for each problem. With rewards for getting say, 3 stickers in a row (one per successful night/mealtime). You could make the chart together!

You will need to be tough about this, and expect some screaming. But isn't it better to have a few nights of screaming in order for him to get used to staying in his own bed all night, and then being totally happy in his own bed?

I agree with gargain, say very clearly I do not like that behaviour and try not to get into the habit of just saying no to everything, for me if dc do not eat dinner they leave the table, they arent punished, I would bring his dinner time ahead and make it things he really likes, and if its too early for you to eat make a cup of tea and have a similar portion to him, chat to him about anything except food, if he refuses to eat say brightly ok and let him down, if he comes back hungry give him some fruit or a yoghurt. This isnt necessarily a longterm solution but you need to break the cycle that is happening at the moment. I dont mean to sound preachy this is just how I would do it.

DH went and spoke to our next door neighbour, and they have said not to worry about it at all, they know what it's like to have young children, but am glad he did go and speak to them, cos as much as realistically I knew they would be fine with it, at 3am in the morning when he is kicking off all you can think about is the neighbours being woken up.

In answer to the toilet training question, no he is in process of being toilet trained during day, but surely if this was the issue he would wake up when he stays at Gran's.....he sleep's sound from 7pm till 8am when there, and my Mum cannot understand why he is waking up....wish I knew too!

We have been going down to his level, speaking to him at his height and in a normal tone, it sounds crazy, but when he takes these hissy fits it's like he has been possessed!!! And he just won't calm down, his face goes scarlet tears blind him, feet stamping and real vein popping screams....

I know we are not the first or the last to have a toddler behaving like this, but you do feel like you are the only one, and it's heartbreaking watching my gorgeous wee boy behaving like this, cos when he is good, he really is so good, perhaps that's why it hits us so hard???

"going down to his level, speaking to him at his height and in a normal tone"

...and walking off and ignoring him?

IMO that is the important bit.

Don't get involved in any sort of conversation - he's too upset to chat or listen.

Just do the loud, firm and assertive "no, we don't do XYZ" bit and leave the room.

Let him screech - once he's calmed down you can deal with it then.

While he's in a rage any calm chat/explaining/discussion/asking why will be like a red rag to bull.

Yeah, we go down to his level and speak in normal calm tone, to which he normal screams till his face is puce, then walk away, but he continues to scream, stamp feet etc, and usually follows you around, I have to admit that as much as I ignore him, if I see he is really distressed I do speak to him, maybe that is the wrong thing to do?

It is VERY hard to see him so upset, but I know in my heart it's for his own good...

You have to think whether he is hurting, scared or whether he is angry, if he is scared or hurting you give him comfort, if he is angry it is not going to do him any harm to cry. When I tell off I dont use a normal calm voice I am not shouting but my voice is raised and very serious, they know I mean businesss and am not budging. You are not doing anything wrong it is just difficult and you have to find the best coping strategy for you, how is the sleeping going?

I think he is very clearly asking for you to set the boundaries and show him where they are. The wanting your bed/his cot/mummy/daddy in turn are signs of a little boy who is lost because he has too much control!

YOU decide where he sleeps.

Whether he cries/tantrums is not in your control. But not letting that make you fly into a panic and chop and change your parenting; that IS in your control.

Personally I think he needs you and his dad to take the decisions and be kind, firm and clear.

I'd decide on what is non negotiable and then stick to it. Personally I don't really believe in 'bad habits' re the coming in to your bed thing...kids grow and develop and need different things at different times so doing it now doesn't mean it'll be forever.

Likewise him not settling with you laying next to him; you just need to show him (if that's what you decide you want to so) that you WILL lay with him but only if he lays down nicely. You get up to go if he plays up.

Basically decide on the boundary and then be firm is what I'm saying, but I think the boundary should be really about what his needs are NOW rather than "I'm putting this boundary in because I don't want to make bad habits"

HTH

Sleeping is much the same, wakes up in the middle of the night and ends up in our bed!

I don't feel my son has too much control, I have watched Supernanny when there has been 3 year olds who rule the house and my wee boy is nothing like that, it's as if he just loses it cos he doesn't know any other way to express himself.

If I'm honest I felt quite upset reading your post Stephanie, cos it made me feel like I'm not in control of my son, and that made me feel really really bad, I don't mean anything personal to you at all, I asked for advice and you gave it, but I don't feel he is lost at all, he knows when we mean business if he is doing wrong, but it does not matter to him, he still stamps feet screams till he is puce and screams his head off so people is Australia can hear him!!!

When he does kick off we try to ignore him, but difficult when he follows you round house, so TBH I do sometimes ask him "are you ok? what's wrong?" to which he screams again louder, as if to let me know he is still in a mood and I have to leave him alone!!!

Argggggggggggggh!

Dont get upset, like I said you arent doing anything wrong it is just tough, he is going from baby to boy and this is just the transition. It is up to you to decide if you have a problem with him sleeping in your bed, or how much of his dinner to eat, MNers can only tell you how we deal with similar circumstances, take what you like and leave the rest.

Hi Angie - I was just browsing the posts and saw yours and felt compelled to reply.

I know your situation is stressful but I really do think it is completely normal and you need to just get through this rough patch, which may last a couple of months or so. Do whatever you need to do to retain some sanity without feeling bad about what you're doing.

We are going through a similar phase with our 2.5 yr old - he is super cranky at the moment and grumpy from the moment he wakes up, doesn't want anything, doesn't know what he wants etc. He comes into our bed every night without fail (between 1 and 5am) and we play musical beds with usually DP or me going in his room and putting a mattress on the floor. But I haven't the heart and am too tired to get him back to sleep in his room (plus he slept in our bed for 2 years so its pretty normal for us!)

What I do when he has a mega tantrum (pushes me away, doesn't want a cuddle but screams for me if I walk away, wants his 'blankie' then throws it down etc. etc.) and what I feel most comfortable with is just being there with him but not trying to make it better (which I have found you can't) or find a solution or reason for the behaviour. I don't think it makes the tantrums shorter but at least I am providing emotional support by being there for him and giving a cuddle when he is ready. I think they are just finding things hard to cope with at that age and its one of the few ways they can express themselves effectively. I try and pick our battles and let him feel like he has control over aspects of his life that he can e.g. which socks/pants to wear, what he'd like in his sandwich etc.

Sometimes if there is a tantrum brewing you can deal with negativity by saying "would you like to get dressed now or in 5 minutes?", or "would you like to get dressed before or after you watch Thomas the Tank Engine?". If you can give a choice (rather than give them the opportunity of saying "no") it helps, though my DS often now says "nothing" as his choice!

I try not to forget that this little person is just figuring out their separateness from you and we have so much control over so many aspects of their lives that it is understandable they want to get some of it back. This, and picking boundaries and battles very carefully has helped us no end. I try not to reflexively say "no", but think about whether it really matters if he makes a mess etc. etc. Sometimes that does depend on how much patience you have/how tired you are that day though!

You're not on your own, though, and if you really feel like you're going mad just leave the room and shut the door for a bit until you've (and hopefully he has) calmed down sufficiently.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Jo

Jo, your post has cheered me up.

I know we are not alone in this, but when it is happening to you, you feel like you must have the worst toddler in the world!

I did read that tantrums are their way of trying to establish themselves as they don't know how else to show how they feel.

One of my friends is having a tougher time than us, as I discovered today, so I'm thankful that what I thought was bad, is actually kind of normal.

As for the sleep issue I think we will just ride with it and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for all your help. x