nursery issues hmmmm - am I being over sensitive??

[newdad2]

A bit of a moan. I'm a SAHD and receiving some funding so DS (18mths) can go to nursery so I can look for work. DS has just started 3 mornings a week and problems with room manager already:

1. DS has been drinking from a cup since 6mths old - his choice. Room manager wants him to use a beaker. Said no cos developmentally going backwards.
2. DS probably has eczema (since DW has). Therefore have him in reusable nappies - better for skin. Room manager response "has dad not heard of pampers?".
3. DS is mixed race/ culture/ religion. I had completed all necessary paperwork before starting. DS given chilli con carne (beef). When I questioned this was told "well we don't serve pork here". (Assumption that DS is Muslim - he is not) and that the meat was probably lamb - uncertainty.
4. No opportunity for handover cos when I collect DS the children are being put to sleep straight after they have their lunch. But I do not know what he has done or how he has been.

I got quite stressed because I want to work but I need to know he is in a safe and supportive environment. I rang nursery manager for a meeting with both her and the room manager. DW came to present a united front and to bear witness. Room manager was not present (in training for level 3) and her deputy there instead. We believed it has been sorted and were assured by the nursery manager that. But dropping him off just now I had to hand over his new nappies etc to a nursery nurse - the room manager totally blanked me. Not good for communicating needs.

Surely it's not about convenience to the nursery but instead meeting individual needs?

agree that's how it should be. is the nursery part of a chain?

i would not be happy with any of that

1. No need for an 18 month old to drink from a beaker

1. Nappies - shouldn't be a big deal

1. My DS has a veggie diet at nursery as we are Kosher - i would be FURIOUS if he was given meat of ANY description. It is absolutely not acceptable to feed your son meat

1. No handover - not on! it takes 2 mins to chat through what your DS has been doing

Room manager - blanking is RUDE

Ds went to nursery from 6mo and we used washable nappies. Sometimes they needed reminding to tell all the relevant staff how to fit the wraps to stop leakage, but normally no problems, and certainly no arguments.

Ds was vegetarian at nursery, although dh cooked some organic meat for him at home (I'm vege so don't cook meat) - again, no problem with nursery

Handover - if there is not someone that can come to tell you how the morning has gone they would appear to be either short-staffed or not up to the job - never had this with ds whether I picked him up after lunch (in which case he and the few children that didn't nap then would be playing quietly away from the others) or evening when lots of other parents were also picking up.

Are there any other options in your area that you could look at?

The key thing is your gut feeling; if you feel that they are not making any effort to compromise and they they are uninterested in communicating with you then you should look for another nurseary

on the specific points

1. open cup versus beaker. I think they are required to make water freely available especially in hot weather and the easiest way to do this is to have beakers of water out ready for children to use, don't think you could do this in a toddler room. The compromise i got was that he should be allowed to have an open cup at meal times
2. nappies; tbh although real nappies are great especially for sensitive skin; they do need changing more often and on cue rather than at specific times. in nurseries they will change as say 10.30 rather then when they notice a child being too wet. This is why i went for sposies in the end (lesser of two evils)
3. +4) this is clearly out of order and not what you would expect in any good nursery.

so to sum up; i think you may have issues with points 1 + 2 anywhere but your gut reaction and points 3+4 suggest this is a bit of a cr**p place

room manager sounds like an arse. but how much contact has she with ds? are his actual carers nice? is ds happy? these are much more important IMO

point by point

1. no surprises there - the mess children can make from an open cup is much bigger than a beaker. DS won't forget how to do it though. Would a straw be a good compromise? Maybe this kind of thing.

1. correct response is 'Yes I have. Have you heard how long they stay in landfill?' They might not have had a child in reusables before - we are in the minority!

1. Am not quite understanding this - did you request that ds was not served meat? or just not beef? Sometimes it's easier (for them and you) just to request vegetarian food rather than get too fiddly - we requested veggie + fish for dd because dh is antsy about meat quality.

1. This is not on IMO. Whatever time I pick up I get a sheet with dd's naps, nappy times and what was in them, milk times and how much she drank, meals and how much she ate AND a 'free text' box for what she's been up to. Is there not a 'diary' system or something? Or is it just because you pick up early before htye;ve ahd a chance to write up the day?

I think there is a balance to be struck between convenience and meeting individual needs - one of the hardest things I found abotu dd going to nursery is that she'd no longer be the pivot around which the whole house revolved, with every whim pandered to and every foible indulged, but would have to sometimes wait her turn and put up with things that weren't ideal. ANd she survived .

Isn't it one of the LIbby Purves books that says that it's unreasonable to expect anyone else to love your child as much as you do...

It's not sounding good.

If your DS is basically happy then I would be inclined to give it a couple of days/weeks and then ask for another meeting with the manager (or schedule one now so that they know you want to review how it is going). If DS is not happy then it is more urgent.

With titles like 'room manager' I am guessing it is a fairly large nusery? If it is one of a chain then ask to meet the district manager next time - they are very hot on making sure processes are followed (and it would appear from your OP that they are not)

I think you should trust your instincts if you are not happy.

They should take your individual needs into account. If they can't comply then they should explain, not be dismissive of them. I don't think you have asked for anything unreasonable.

I don't get why people like that manager take complaints so personally. It makes such a good impression when someone listens, says sorry and sorts it out.

1. i can understand this due to the mess of maybe 9 toddlers all with open beakers would cause. i had similar issue with dd so we found a compromise with free flow lidded beaker.

2. are they using the reusables? is your dc coming home comfy in them?

3. is the issue that they didn't know what the meat was? is there a problem with your dc having beef? if so i would just say you want to go veggie.

4. no handover is inexcusable. you should get a written sheet detailing poos, wees, food, activities etc. ask to speak to the manager about this.

btw. i wouldnt necessarily worry if it's a chain. dd was in a chain nursery and it was fab. moved house, she moved to a small family run nursery on a farm...sounded marvellous, outstanding ofsted etc etc.. but was actual really quite bad. moved her out to a bigger one, was far far better.

I wouldn't worry about it being a chain either - DS was v. happy at the one he went to which was part of the largest chain - it just affects the way in which you deal with them.

Thanks for all your posts.

To clarify:
Cup situation: give smaller amounts in cup so won't spill
DS cannot eat beef as completed in paperwork.
Handovers have happened this week on all 3 afternoons that he is collected.

However, the plot thickens re: nappies.
I had rang the nursery this morning to say that we had changed DS before we left so ideally not due for another nappy change until 11.00. If they needed any help I said I would be happy to come along and show them. Arrived to collect him at 12.30pm to be told in handover no nappy change had taken place. I said I would change him NOW. The nursery nurse fed this back to the room manager as I was changing DS and her reaction was concerning. She threw her hands up in the air, made an angry noise threw clenched teeth and stormed out of the room. While I was changing DS another room manager came in to say she was deputising for the nursery manager and could she have a word afterwards. When I spoke to her she said that it was herself that had taken the original message this morning, apologised for getting it wrong and that they had a system of scheduled changing. I said OK but why not change him? No answer. DW is livid when I rang her at work and assumes that said room manager in question just does not want to use reusables. Even though the ones we have are really easy and already made up. Ahhhh. I'm getting a little stressed about this. I find this room managers attitude really bad and was told today that there have been many complaints - not just me. I take on board what has been said about the district manager being involved as well in any further meeting. I am happy to comply with any nursery schedules as long as there is balance in meeting individual need. DS is not pandered to - I am far from that kind of parent and part of the reason for him going to nursery is to socialise with other children and become used to a regime. Hopefully, thus making transition to mainstream schooling easier in the long run. Also I know him to react differently with other people and am happy to encourage this as part of his social understanding.

At the end of the day whether they like reusables or not they HAVE to use them especially as it is for health reasons. Changing nappies is not pleasant it's part of their job.

I would seriously reconsider leaving DC in that paricular nursery, they do not seem to have the children welfare at hearts (well not yopurs anyway) rather more how conveniant for them. Is it the only nursery in your area?

at their assumption of your dDC's culture/religion.

By ofsted rules they have to to have water freely available for the children to help themselves (ridiculous rule imo). So if they left an open cup on the side then it could get knocked over by anyone. Drinking out of a beaker sometimes really isn't going to make any difference.

Beef is bad if it was in paperwork.

Nappies, sounds like it's not going to be possible to have a sensible relationship with them. I'd just move him, start again and fuss about beef and nappies not not beakers.

Jimjam, I did not know this ofsted rule, but for an 18mth old to help themself with water surely it is easyer with a cup than a beaker

If there have been multiple complaints it sounds as though the issues may mostly/all be down to one individual (the room manager)

Are you prepared to name the chain? If so, then others on here may be able to advise on their particular management structure, but certainly at DS's nursery (which was Jigsaw, then Leapfrog/NordAnglia) issues which basically required a member of staff to be disciplined/removed were best addressed with nursery manager + district manager (2nd hand experience - we never had any serious issues).

It's only this room manager. DS is fine and enjoys his key worker and everyone else. Again, AHHHHH!

I would speak to the manager (again) and just point out that you are very happy with his key worker but you are finding the room manager unprofessional in their attitude. If the nursery manager is trying to deal with the room managers attitude in order to improve the nursery then she/he will need complaints that specifically state it is her attitude that is the problem.

i would definitely have a word about this room manager - completely unacceptable behaviour. rude, unprofessional and, in short, NOT ON! can see why, if DS happy and so on, you might not want to move him (though surely the temptation much be increasing!!) but they need to know how off-putting and downright awful this person's attitude is. good luck!

NOt if you\re clearing up the mess. The beaker really isn't worth fussing about. It won't make any difference if he has a beaker sometimes and if you do complain about that will just dilute your entirely reasonable complaints.

A nursery is always going to do some things differently. If food and nappies affect his health (or religion) then that's worth complaining about. But different ways of doing things (cups/beakers) are not. ds2 takes a sports bottle to school - all the kids do- so open cups really aren't used anywhere.

You have all been very supportive and extremely helpful in your advice. Some extremely useful stuff here. My wife is more clued up on the Early Years Programme and after her initial anger has calmed down enough to strategise with me. Tell me what you all think:

I am going to ring the nursery manager tomorrow and ask for another meeting for next week but the room manager must also be present to account for herself and also for us to begin to communicate. The key to resolving this situation has to be via dialogue. If this room manager refuses to attend then I may have to take this further. The incident today could have been avoided if there was dialogue. What the room manager is doing is an emotional blackmail amounting to bullying. (Is that bit a little too strong and should I save that if the matter goes further?).

Also if I don't hear from the nursery manager regarding a meeting with herself and room manager by the end of play on say, Wednesday then I'll have to take the matter further. Also, the organisation administering the funding for DS place will want to see me next week and I have already been told to bring these matters to their managers attention as part of the review. I told this to the room manager deputising today.

I would save the emotional blackmail comment for the next stage (if it proves neccesary)

I would also, TBH, want to talk to the manager without the room manager as well as with her. If, as seems likely, the manager is already trying to deal with this problem employee, he/she might be more frank about that in private, and you can agree action plans accordingly.

On the core issues, I would agree - drop the beaker thing. DD(2.2) drinks from cups, beakers and sports bottles at will. DS(6) takes sports bottles into school as do many/most primary school children. Drinking from a beaker at nursery will not stop him using a cup at home. On the diet thing, whilst you are entirely within your rights to be angry about this, the safest option might be for DS to be vegetarian at nursery.

Fight the other stuff. It is more important.