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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Gender stereotyping and boys

20 replies

Lizum · 01/12/2008 12:20

I guess I'd describe myself as a feminist although I prefer the term equalist as I think men have less freedom to break from sterotypes and should have the same opportunities to do traditional "women's" work that women have to do "men's" work. Anyway, all my life I've been a bit of a tomboy and now I'm an engineer. The thing is, we've just given birth to a boy and I'm looking for advice on how to bring him up without conforming to stereotypes but also to raise him to be strong against bullies if he prefers dolls, pink etc. I don't think I'd have the same concerns with a girl as I've been through it myself and it's generally more acceptable these days for girls to be "boys".

OP posts:

Crimboprocta · 01/12/2008 12:36

I agree, it's seen as a positive thing for a girl to be masculine. Being assertive and confident is seen as more useful in the adult world than empathy and nurturing, traditionally seen as feminine traits. It's a real shame that many children are herded to one side of the fence, or that these traits aren't seen as being as valid.

AtheneNoctua · 01/12/2008 12:38

I generally don't subscribe to the gender stereotypes either. I just raise my kids to experience all things and I let them forge ahead with the things they naturally like and are good at. For example, DD is sporty and not a keen reader. Shhe is pretty good at math so I encoursge that actively. But, she also loves Disney Princesses (yuk!) and playing with her baby dolls.

DS loves trains, Roary, and is not interested in anything girly.

SoupDragon · 01/12/2008 12:43

All you have to do it provide all the opportunities to be who he wants to be. There is a big chance he'll only be into boys toys anyway but a play kitchen, a pushchair and a single baby doll can go a long way.

DS2 (7) likes to run a cafe from DD's play kitchen - it was his/DS1's play kitchen before it was hers though but he is as stereotypically "boy" as they come.

Threadworrm · 01/12/2008 12:46

I don't think you have to do anything in particular. You just have to refrain from saying daft things that, with your views, you wouldn't say anyway, like 'Boys don't cry/play with dolls, etc.

The main thing, I think, is not to penalise boys for being boys. Most parents I know are completely happy for their boys to express 'feminine' preferences, like playing with dolls. But some are disapproving of boyish robustness, noisiness, etc. There seems to be a feeling that boys should be more like girls. Unfortunately the school system seems to reinforce this horribly, and favours more feminine ways of learning.

By all means encourage your son to be happy with so-called 'feminine' preferences, but also endorse his boyishnesss.

Original poster

Lizum · 01/12/2008 13:19

There's not much chance of us not encouraging his boyishness - he's a good excuse to go to museums like Steam etc!

OP posts:

UniS · 01/12/2008 20:36

while you get to chose his clothes you can avoid some of teh macho stuff. My boy had pink muslins, he never noticed, he had a dolly buggy for a bit, he never noticed it was pink, tho the 5 yr od girl aross teh road did comment. Now he goes to ballet class becasue its something he can do with one of his buddies ( a girl) who goes to a differnt pre school. he is a boy boy, loves kicking a ball about, playing trains and cycling.
as yet hes not really aware of boy girl differnce, all small children are "that boy" to him. How long it will last I don't know.The 4 yr old girls at ballet are very aware hes a boy and some refuse to hold hands with him, some tell him boys can't do ballet....
Enjoy your sons freedom from stereotype as long as you can, but accept he will have preferences of his own one day.

Gemzooks · 01/12/2008 22:00

I totally agree with you. I just try to give my DS (2) equal opportunities, so he has cars or whatever and also a doll in a buggy that he takes out. It is more of a struggle than you think with grandparents, who turn out surprisingly traditional with presents. there's definitely a kind of 'oh get the poor lad a proper boys' toy' vibe I get from ours.

I also try to neutralise more sexist kids' books by adding phrases in when I read them aloud! But there's so much sexism in kids' media and books, it's hard to avoid!

UniS · 01/12/2008 22:52

Curiously ballet stories are one of teh less stereotypical type of books I've found. both ballet lesson story books I've had from library have had boys in teh class as well as girls.
tractor and train stories on teh other hand... boys all teh way.

brimfull · 01/12/2008 22:55

I think it's really hard to stop the child picking up on gender stereotypes.
My ds is 6 and already he assumed the school choir was for girls only Thankfully he has since joined and loves it.
Funnily enough he watches his older sister playing the flute and says he'd like to play when he's older and she's telling him it's a girl's instrument

TeenyTinyTorya · 01/12/2008 23:01

I'm trying to bring ds (20mths) up with a complete disregard for gender stereotypes. He has a doll and doll's pram as well as toy cars. We do lots of dancing and singing and dressing up and silly stuff (he did go through a phase of walking round the house in my stilettos, that was quite funny!).

Also, I make a conscious effort never to say "that's girly" or "that's a boy's thing". For example, if he picks pink sparkly shoes up in the shoe shop, I tell him that they're too big for him, rather than say that they're girly. And if I had a girl, she would not be dressed in pink sparkles cos I hate them lol!

skrimbo · 01/12/2008 23:11

It is harder with boys, my son had a doll and a pram. which MIL found a bit strange at first. As they get older it gets harder as kids are evil little buggers really and any hint of a boy doing girly stuff can leave them open to all sorts of problems.

I think it is one thing to bring him up to be strong but a fine line between that and leading him like a lamb to the slaughter by going against the stereotypes. Its not easy .

skrimbo · 01/12/2008 23:13

LOL just thinking after all my anti sterotyping stuff I did with my two whent hey were little they follow the stereotypes very much.

DD loves ballet, horses, pink and purple.
DS loves rugby, science and outdoor camping type stuff.

Mindyou DD loves science and maths and DS still loves all his cuddly toys

Gemzooks · 02/12/2008 05:29

I was reading the EU's equality between men and women report for 2008, and one of the interesting things about the UK was that we had one of the highest segregation by gender in employment, so one of the highest proportion of men and women doing traditional men's or women's jobs, compared to other European countries. That report also recommended that gender stereotypes have to be combated at an early age to counteract this...

BroccoliSpears · 02/12/2008 07:26

Thready - you point "Most parents I know are completely happy for their boys to express 'feminine' preferences" is unfortunately not my experience at all. Most of my friends are a bit organic Boden and I would have expected no one to bat an eyelid at breaking gender steriotypes. Have been amazed at the comments and grins when I put ds in any of his sister's cast offs (And I'm not talking about frilly dresses!) and when he spent a few weeks inseparable from a rather pink and frilly ragdoll everyone thought it was hillarious . He's only 7 months.

BroccoliSpears · 02/12/2008 07:26

"you point" -> your point.

Threadworrm · 02/12/2008 09:46

Really Broc? I think I overstated that point didn't I. It is easier to be a 'girly' boy now than it used to be, but I guess it is still not as easy as it should be -- and still way harder than being a female tomboy.

Having two quite 'boy-y' boys I suppose I am just much more aware of the current tendency to underrate and disapprove of boyish ways of being and learning. Boys and men are so often told they ought to be more female.

Competitiveness, 'robust' physicality, etc, are all frowned on.

I think we need to allow and celebrate these things, and of course foster ways that they can be expressed constructively.

Gemzooks · 02/12/2008 12:40

I do find the sexist stuff quite pervasive, like trousers even for tiny girls of 2-3 years old (H and M for example), being cut in a more female style and tighter round the bum than those for boys, and as you say threadworm the demonisation of boys, these awful slogans implying they're monsters or terrors all the time. It's all backed up by toys, ads, TV etc, so very hard to counteract. Even on Ballamory which was so criticised for being too PC, who is the intelligent, rich, clever scientist? A white male. And who is the sports teacher? A black female.. if it had been reversed, that would have been real PC in action!

carocaro · 02/12/2008 19:43

You just have to wait and see what he likes, it seems that boys just can't help themselves, they have to pick up sticks and run about, I have two sons, 6 and 23 months, the younger one loves to push his teddy in a mini pram, but loves Thomas and rough and tumble play, also likes to make cakes and clean windows with me. DS6 is now very much a boy, nothing is forced on him here or at school. It makes me laugh when I pick him up as most of the girls come out at home time all neat and calm and most of the boys all pile out, a bit scruffy and run off to play stright away. There are some differences that you just cannot dispute. My youngest has a mass of blonde curls, wears jeans and red tops, more boy like clothing, and it always called a SHE/GIRL, because of his hair! When we go round to the ante natal group, each others houses, there is a big mix of boy and girls toys at each of the sex's houses and they all play with everything!

I would waste no time in worrying about this with you new son, there is much more stuff to worry about with them.

Fillyjonk · 02/12/2008 20:04

hi lizum, I think you may be me 5 years ago! I was determined to be an "equalist" (good word). I still am. My concern is that my son does not have doors closed to him-or close doors himself-because of his gender. I also have two daughters and I feel just as strongly about them.

I am happy with the outcome. He is 5, and while he certainly knows that boys and girls differ, it would absolutely not occur to him to refuse to play with girls, he has good female friends. He is hugely into eletronics, building stuff, bikes and anything mechanical but also knitting, reading (he likes all the little house on the prairie/secret garden type stuff which tend to have female protagonists)/violin, drawing etc. He likes pink and he likes sparkly things . Which is a bit of a PITA for me as I loathe pink

Crucially for me he has been able to explore a lot of areas and speak to a lot of people.
Nothing has been closed off. He has a fairly boistrous personality, perhaps because he is a boy, perhaps becuase of who he IS (and dd1 is similar temprement wise). That is fine. I don't want to change this. I just don't want prejudice-from him or from others-to get in the way of him finding out what he wants to do with his life.

We were only able to do this because we anyway have a rather fringe lifestyle. We don't watch tv (kids tv is AWFUL for gender sterotyping, IMO), and my children are homeschooled, though they have had spells in nursery.

I think the crucial thing though is that I am aware of gender stereotyping (and other forms of stereotyping) and we talk about it. I think a certain about of

Fillyjonk · 02/12/2008 20:11

(oh and I KNOW he's only 5, I KNOW it will get harder, I KNOW.

But everyone has always said to me "wait til he can talk-then he'll tell you he doesn't want a dolly" "wait til he can choose his own books-then he'll tell you he just wants to read about trains" etc etc.

Its just that so far his interests do seem well balanced. Oh I don't know.

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