Which is better - not cleaning teeth, or forcing it and risking phobia?

[potatofactory]

That's the choice we are faced with at the moment. My dd (18 months) WILL NOT co-operate - we have tried all possible tactics. I'm worried that if I just go in and clean them when her mouth is open because she is screaming, then I am risking a proper phobia. If we don't do this she gets bad breath and I really worry about her teeth.

Any thoughts?

You could get a second toothbrush, or an old one and get her to 'brush' her bath toys' teeth, or your teeth! We struggled along with different things like that for ages, or just letting DD mess with the brush herself, and eventually she let us brush her teeth.

petryk1
not sure that a dentist would attempt to clean his teeth
I took mine when they were both babies and they just had a very quick glance in
I think it is more about getting them used to visiting the dentist
I gave my dc a toothbrush as soona as i started weaning
it was like a toy that they could chew on
then when they got teeth i used to give a quick once over with a brush
building it up gradually is waht you are aiming for
till they can do it themselves

We force it. If necessary dp will get ds2 in a headlock

I think thats less truamatic for them than a session at the dentists with drills etc.

DS1 did get used to it so hopefully ds2 will get there soon.

We are in a deprived area with really bad rates for childrens dental health so they get free toothbrushes and toothpaste every term. That helps cos they like the new brushes.

We also look in their mouths and say 'oh no I can see loads of beasties in there eating your teeth, need to brush them out', and finally we have a sticker chart for teeth cleaning but it has to be proper stickers of dinosaurs or something, just stars isn't enough encouragement for them!

Good luck!

We had a nightmare with this recently too, and DS like yours is still too young for "what's in there"-type games but has nearly all his teeth (16mo). When he first started to make a fuss (after several months of letting me do it very nicely!), we were a bit scared to force the issue - but now we kind of wish we had, I think if we had made it non-negotiable right from the start of the refusals he would probably have accepted it by now!

What I'm trying now is the "everything-but-brute-force" tactic. I will hold him firmly on my knee, pull hands away from his face, push the brush in through closed lips etc, but trying to avoid the extremes of pinning him down and definitely anything that might hurt him or e.g. make him gag, so he doesn't get even more upset by it. BUT I insist on getting in at least a quick brush, until I have managed that I won't let him get off my knee or out of the bathroom. If he co-operates reasonably well, I make a big fuss afterwards, give him cuddles and throw him up in the air (which he likes!) as a reward. We also combine this with singing songs, letting him have a go first (chewing the brush) and anything else we can think of to distract/persuade him, but none of those things worked on their own.

It's still early days but I think it may be starting to help cos I have managed 2 reasonable brushes in a row now, so fingers crossed....

I'm quite shocked tbh at the number of people who seem to find it acceptable to 'force' their young dcs to have their teeth cleaned.

Here is the advice I've just received from my dentist.

In the early years diet is far far far more important to preventing decay than cleaning the plaque away. Avoid/keep to an absolute minimum exposure to refined sugar and sugary food and drink. No juice in bottles, drink given them taken away not left around to be sipped at for hours. Ensure a balanced diet with plenty of fresh fruit and veg and calcium ruch food.

As for teeth cleaning. Under 2ish years just hand them a tooth brush to chew on and encourage them to copy you, make sure they see you cleaning your teeth and that its an accepted and normal part of bathroom routine. Put a tiny amount of toothpaste on if you like but not essential unless you're in a no fluoride in the water area.

Latest advice is not to clean your or their teeth straight after food anyway, something to do with the acid lifting the minerals away so that if you brush straight away you're removing the minerals too. Instead you should wait for at least 20 mins to let the ph in your mouth normalise and the minerals settle back onto the enamel.

Ok I clean my two year old sons teeth sometimes under force. Their diet is exemplary and I don't know why you might think that a child would be forced to have their teeth cleaned straight away after a meal.

We used to have to force ds1 sometimes and he now happily either does his own or lets us do it.

They have their teeth cleaned once a day at bedtime.

fwiw they usually don't want a bath either so I put water in the bath and dump them in it.

How old is/are your children pheebe?

My sons don't like having their teeth brushed while its going on but they rush to put a sticker on their chart after so its hardly truamatising them is it?

Flipperty, not quite sure why you appear to be trying to start an argument with me, all I'm doing is passing on the advice I've had from our dentist. Based on his advice I see no reason to 'force' a child to have their teeth brushed.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you - I'm just wondering if you have children over 2 who NEED to have their teeth properly cleaned.

Just chewing on a toothbrush doesn't work forever and once they get to the age where they are not with you all the time (ie at a party with sweet stuff to eat) then imo its best to just clean their teeth really thoroughly even if they protest.

When my children were less than 2 if they ate something sweet I would make sure their teeth were properly cleaned that night and not just let them chew on a toothbrush.

they have had checkups at the dentist since they were 18m each and dentist says they have very good condition teeth, so I must be doing something right.

(You haven't said how old your child/ren is/are)

Ok, its hard to tell sometimes from the written word. You do come across as quite confrontational though. I haven't questioned your ability as a parent or how well you're caring for your dcs teeth. I'm merely passing on my feelings and the advice we've had from our dentist.

Anyway, my boys are 4.5 and 18 months. We took this approach with ds1 after he screamed blue murder a few times as a baby. He is fab at brushing his teeth now and has been from about 2yo. His teeth are in fine shape.

Ds1 is at the chewing stage, also generally hates have his teeth scrubbed. We don't push it and get to give them a quick scrub 3 or 4 times a week.

Personally I do not do anything to my child that overtly distresses them, especially in the face of medical advice that its really not necessary.

my little boy hates having his teeth /and nose cleaned but i have to do it, it needs doing

If you don't brush her teeth then she will get a REAL phobia when the dentist has to pull all her teeth!
Sorry to be blunt, but a boy down the road hated having his teeth brushed and most of them were pulled by the age of 4yrs old!
Is it the taste she hates, try different toothpastes?

Teethbrushing is non-negotiable in our house.

Usually DD3 is fine about it (she is 2.7) but has her moments of screeching and flailing about, like most drama queens toddlers. And when she does that we do the gentle persuasion, the make a game of it, and then if still no joy we do the pin her down and get on with it method!

We usually have success with the animal game - we get her to open wide whilst we go looking for animals, then shout 'got them!' as we brush them away. Just tonight we found zebras, baboons and giraffes

My DD would not cooperate at that age. I gave her no choice to get a phobia. She is cleaning her teeth end of story!

She is much happier doing it herself so we compromise. She has a go, lots of praise. I let her watch herself in the mirror which fascinates her. I only let her do it after telling her it is my turn afterwards. Then I clean them thoroughly, while she watches in the mirror. Then she can play for a bit if she wants. We make a bit deal if her teeth being sparkly, and make a point of her going to daddy for a big pleased cuddle and 'wow what shiny teeth you have, beautiful'. She loves the praise, so in time the struggle became less.

Some days she is not in the mood/too tired/too angsty and then its a quick brush, made up the next day with a thorough going over. But it has taken time to get here.

DD (16mo) does her own teeth in a kins of chewing the brush kind of way.....I let her brush my teeth the other day and she thought that was pretty good - so good she also tried to brush my eyeballs...

I have a 1.1 year old DD and a 3.1 year old DS.

I actually don't clean their teeth. (Reason is that they don't like it and I do not feel that I should hold them down).

I think the state of a person's teeth has quite a lot to do with genetics and luck, as well as brushing etc.

Please don't flame me, it's just my approach and opinion and I am not forcing it on anybody.

I found at that age, what worked was holding a mirror in front of dd's mouth so she could watch- she loved that.
Also, naming each foodstuff I was 'brushing off' as I brushed them- eg "Ooh, look at that broccoli, lets get that off there... oh, chicken behind that tooth... whats that? some yoghurt!" ad infintium until they are all cleaned.
She occasionally asks me to list her food now! (3.2)

My niece (aged 4) had all her front 4 top teeth bad (she's now 6).

Ds (now 4) occasionally used to refuse to have his teeth cleaned, but we made sure that he did - teeth too important... yes, we forced the issue - but at 4 he is fine with teeth cleaning....

Thanks girls for all your ideas!Ds has decided he likes the taste of the toothpaste!! (at least that is something i suppose!).
POTTYCOCK- How funny! you did make me giggle this morning re:DD brushing eyeballs... thing is did they really NEED it?!!!!.
PHEEBE- Thanks too, feel a wee bit less like a crap mother now!. I will be taking DS to dentists with me next week, My HV also said diet was the most important thing at this early stage and any effective brushing would probably come at a later stage.
That said still worried re:tartar build up btween DS teeth, although have been told this would probably happen anyway, as you cannot clean babies teeth interdentally. I mean I clean my teeth twice a day and floss but still need to see the hygienist every 6mnths!!.

I think the fear of phobia is far exaggerated. If you can keep your own temper and stay relatively goodhumoured, most children will not develop a phobia of everything you force them to do.

In fact, when my dd found herself in a situation where she had to have invasive medical treatment, we both found it immensely helpful to know from experience that I could force her to do things and neither of us would end up terribly frightened by the forcing itself.

I remember the same from my childhood. On one level it was immensely reassuring to know that what my dad said had to happen, would happen, and the agony of struggling would not be prolonged.

I think trauma is more likely to happen if the adult gets terribly upset by the whole forcing situation, but tbh I found that wasn't necessary.

Also, pace Pheebe's dentist, some children are more prone to tooth decay even if you follow the rules he laid down. Mine have never had juice in the bottle, have water and milk as their everyday drink, and have a very balanced diet, but still need to be extra careful with tooth hygiene.

While it's not nice to have to force your DD to have her teeth brushed it would be far less nice to have to take her to the dentist to have rotten teeth removed. So looking at it this way, it really is the lesser of two evils. So, if, after trying all the suggestions on here she still won't let you brush her teeth then I think, yes, you would have to use a bit of force. It's being cruel to be kind isn't it?

The main reason I do insist on cleaning them is that DS got his teeth really early (had all 8 front ones by 6 months or so, and then virtually all the rest by a year), and that some mornings when I hadn't managed to brush them, I could still SEE bits of food sticking to them from the night before. So it seemed to me there was definite reason to worry about decay (esp. as even milk and fruit can contribute, not just junk).

Also, I remind myself when he makes a fuss that he is just as bad when having his face wiped after meals - and I KNOW that doesn't hurt or harm him, he just doesn't like it. So as long as his reaction is no worse than that, and I know I am being careful not to hurt or choke him (or to be "scary" e.g shouting etc), I don't see it as a bad thing to do.

CRack on and clean those teeth, trust me its easyier when they are screaming than when they bite the brush.
BOy seems to LIKE being headlocked while I clean his teeth, He is now 3, I offer him the hard way - head lock- or easy way - he opens his mouth and sits still. He choses hard way and then is remarkably co-operative...
BUt we went through spells of teh screaming lieing on floor method before we got to here.

It is far too important to leave just because they don't like it. You don't have to hurt them, just consistently make it part of the bedtime routine and absolutely insist.
I don't agree with Pheebe at all. When my DS wouldn't sit in the dentist chair to have them examined we found a different dentist who had the patience to get him to do it. We brushed from the very first tooth.

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if i'm repeating other people's ideas but my dd1 used to be a nightmare with toothbrushing, we constantly had to change tactics but some things that worked for us were

Pretending to be different animals with sharp teeth - crocodiles/dinosaurs/wolves/bears and then having a bedtimestory about one fo these animals for a reward.

Me being the mummy animal and her being the baby animal having teeth brushed.

Letting her chose whether to have the top teeth or bottom teeth brushed first.

Buying a flashing toothbrush and brushing for the length of time it flashed.

Counting to ten while brushing,
top teeth 1-10
bottom teeth 1-10
front of teeth 1-5.

Her mouth being the tunnel and the toothbrush being the train (train noises while brushing)

Most recently i've got a tiny travel theramed toothpaste pot which she loves as it;s tiny and special and just for her

She much prefers blue jelly minty toothpaste to anything else.

Hope some of this is useful

My dd hated it at first but i just told her off for being silly and that mummy and daddy and everyone brushes thier teeth so she has to as well and she accepted that and now just sees is as part of the routine