5 year old causing trouble in the middle of the night!

[charliecat]

Hi, ive just discovered this site and have searched for a problem like mine but cant seem to find one so before i go to bed im going to leave this note. My 5 year old daughter has always been a nightmare, not sleeping not eating etc etc and i have struggled through up till now. I am at my wits end, she wakes up in the middle of the night demanding drinks and toys and anything she can think of...this has been going on for years, if you get what she wants she just thinks of something else to ask for, no matter how ridiculus( i need socks...my feet are cold)...and for the past few weeks i have just refused to get her anything in the hope that if she doesnt get anything then she will get bored and stop. Its not working, we are having battles in the middle of the night with her screaming trying to get her own way and us trying to get her to shut up and stop the screaming and shouting. Shes perfectly lovely through the day and at school shes great, but its like living with satan at night. I have noticed that if she hasnt done the screaming thing through the night then she will have a big tamtrum about something ridiculus through the day instead. I have a two and a half year old who has less tantrums than her. Any advice appreciated and id like to think theres at least one other person going through this torture and its not just me! Thanks

hi charliecat. I had this problem with my ds a while ago too (5yo) but it's mostly stopped now, thank goodness. We did a star chart with a reward for so many stars (small toy or something) and it worked. He can earn a star for good behaviour in the morning getting ready for school, for good behaviour after school, for going to bed with no fuss and for staying in his own bed. So potentially 4 stars a day/night. We are quite strict about it though: any really bad behaviour/coming in to us in the night = no star. He does still sometimes come in with us but he knows he won't get a star if it happens and it's much less often now.

I think you're doing the right thing denying anything in the night, definitely. I know it's hard but try to refuse to have the battles in the middle of the night, could you try calmly stating your case (I know, when it's 2am you probably feel anything but calm!) 'no, you can't have xyz it's the middle of the night, go back to bed etc etc' and keep doing it, consistently every night until she gets the message? I do know the feeling - we used to have middle of the night screaming matches too when I was at the end of my tether and it was awful, really horrible. Anyway, that's what worked for us. We did sit him down and very thoroughly explain the rules at the beginning telling him exactly how it was going to be and we were consistent in putting him back as many times as it took until he got the message that he wasn't going to get away with it. Ditto tantrums during the day, he knows the consequences. HTH, good luck.

Hi charliecat, welcome to mumsnet! I did a quick search of the boards too - there is one in the sleep section called "Sleep and older children", which is mostly about 7-10 yr olds but might have some ideas for you!

I'm sorry to say it sounds like your dd has worked out exactly how to get all the attention she wants at night - as you say, if she doesn't then she will demand it the next day! I know it's tough, but you really have to be firm and consistent - if you give in just once (and I know it seems much easier in the middle of the night to just give in to keep the peace, esp when you have another child asleep!) then she will see it as a sign that if she persists long enough you will give in. If her screaming gets her what she wants, she has no reason to stop doing it. Buy ear plugs if you have to! But you need to stop being part of her game.

Maybe you could try some sort of reward system - if she stays in her bed, and is quiet in her room until morning, she will get a sticker/surprise/breakfast treat. Again, you have to be strict with this, if she doesn't do it, she doesn't get it!

What's her bedtime routine like? Does she go to bed without a fuss? Maybe have a timer, or a checklist, where she has to brush her teeth, get a drink, go to the toilet etc. If she has done it all in time, she gets a story/song etc. When she is in bed, say goodnight and leave - ignore any requests or complaints. Make sure she understands that if she doesn't stay quietly in her room, she won't get the sticker/reward. Calmly tell her if she calls out or cries, you won't answer her, even if she shouts. If she likes to sleep with her door open, tell her if she keeps calling out you will close it - and do so. Don't react to her, don't give her eye contact, don't answer her. Let her know you mean business - you can do it! She will get the message, even if it takes a week, it will be worth it. But it will only work if you DON'T GIVE IN to her calling out to you at all. Remember, you are not hurting or punishing her, you are doing her a favour by teaching her how to get to sleep and stay aleep by herself. You can extend the sticker system to the daytime too - reward for a tantrum free day! HTH and good luck!

charliecat,
if your daughter has lots of tantrums and a sleep problem, have you considered whether food additives may be affecting her behaviour?
If that one can be ruled out, have you tried re-decorating her bedroom, buying special pyjamas and bedclothes etc? does she have a bedtime story, and do you leave the light on? (You've probably been through all this!)
I find that my children (aged 6, 5 and 3) are very susceptible to propaganda. So I have lots of serious chats with them about how children grow while they are asleep in the night, and if they don't sleep properly, they won't grow big and strong, etc etc. If I had this problem, I'd also try some stuff about how only babies wake up demanding things in the night, are you a little, tiny baby? Shall we get the high chair out for you to have your meals in, and would you like to go to school in a pram? Of course this is all a big joke, said whilst rocking the child in my arms, pretending s/he is a baby!

I think your approach of not giving in is a good one, maybe you could reinforce it by asking her if she has everything she needs before she goes to sleep, and following it up with "So you won't be waking up in the night then?"

I do sympathise with this, sorry I can't tell you that my children do exactly the same, but in their case it's always one thing...Mummy, I've wet the bed.

oooo! sleep! My daughter has never been a good sleeper even though she is great during the day. It got better as the years passed ( she is now 5) then I recently decorated and moved her into a bigger and better room. Now its all started again! I try to be consistent but its hard to ressist giving in when i know ive got a full days work to face the next morning!

Hi everyone, thanks for the suggestions, i had vaguely mentioned a starchart to her last night, just as a sort of suggestion, i didnt sit down and say this is what we are going to do or whatever. And this morning after a full nights sleep she asked for her sticker to put on the calender! I let her wear her skirt to school today, i had been putting her in trousers saying that when she had slept through she could have a skirt on( shes very girly and hates her trousers) so we had an instant reward first thing this morning and ive praised her about it a lot saying how wonderful its been and we will see how it goes. I have of course done all this before and the novelty wears off after a while with her but i am hoping that eventually something will break the habit for good. Madly i have tryed everyone suggestions at least once, including saying that she was acting like a baby but she just kept saying "im not!". If shes got a drink and a pair of socks and a teddy etc, she will think of something else that she simply cannot/will not go back to sleep without...the other night it was a hanky, even though she didnt have a runny nose and id gave her a piece of kitchen towel. She shares a room with her sister which makes things impossibly difficult when shes ranting and raving and i counted her saying"i want my blanket" 104 times, a blanket that was already on her bed sometime last week.
GRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Well one nights sleep is better than none and she doesnt appear to be in a tempery mood tonight so we will see what happens. Thanks again i will keep you updated. My fingers are crossed!

Hi charliecat,
think you know me already, surprise surprise, keep your chin up.

oh charliecat hope it continues like this. Maybe buy her a proper star chart now.

My friend has a DS nearly 2. They had to remove the sides of the cot, because he was climbing out of it anyway. Now when he wakes up in the night he gets up and wants mummy to come in and see him. They have put a stairgate on his door, so he is safe in his room, but he just screams and screams (but is VERY happy when mummy goes in and sees him!). Now, as he is much younger than some discussed here and start charts probably wouldn't work (or would they?), do you leave him to scream and hope he gets the idea - is he too old now for "controlled crying"? My friend is at her wits end and needs some sleep - bless her!

Hi
I am MumC and I am new to Mumsnet. Still do not understand the lingo - what does DS and DD stand for? I know they are girl and boy respectively but don't get the abbrevs. I have a little girl who will be 3 in April. She slept till she was 1 and a half years. Teething and my longing for a nights sleep brought her into my bed for the first time at 1 1/2 and only recently have we lured her back to her bed (only for an hour or two though).
I tried the new pillow case and quilt cover. It has a picture of a princess on it and I try 'princess will be lonely if you leave the bed' routine. It works for getting her into her own bed in the first place. She still comes into us in the middle of the night. Last night for the first time (in recent times!)(long drawn out battles enacted in the past.It was a relief to wave the white flag!!) I brought her back in and then left on the pretext of going to the bathroom. This seemed to work so fingers crossed. All I can suggest, and this is from somebody who has failed this test so far, is that you assemble all the things your daughter usually looks for in her room before bedtime and keep telling her that everything is there so there will be no need to call you. This worked with my older little boy. I kept making him promise to stay in his bed and eventually it worked. Oh and reward the good behaviour. Good Luck.

MumC - DS is dear/darling son and dd is dear/darling daughter.

snickers - I don't think 2 years is too old for controlled crying - same principle as with babies - go in every 2/5/10 minutes etc. - a quick comfort, reminder of what he's supposed to be doing (GOING TO SLEEP !!!!!) - then calmly(!) out again. If this hasn't worked after a couple of weeks then friend may have to decide whether to be firmer (leave to cry for longer), to continue the controlled crying or to give in. None of which are easy options o(

I haven't found star charts effective at this age.

Hi.

I have DD's 5 and 2 1/2. Star charts have worked wonders with both of them.

DD5 used to do exactly the same as your 5 year old Charliecat. I resorted to ignoring her(this behavour) and actually found this helped. Or 'get it yourself - you're a big girl now' worked as well.... too lazy to get things herself, just an attention seeking stunt, I actually feel it was part of the 'jealously' thing which she's had since her younger sister was born.

DD2 1/2 used to cry uncontrollably when I would tuck her in and go to leave. She wanted me to sit on the bed until she went to sleep and then would wake up later and scream because she could see I was no longer there.

Touch wood, I have sorted this problem with star chart rewards and also by being stern with her 'you know that I have to do things once you go to bed, so if you're quiet and lay here for 20 minutes I'll come back and give you a kiss'. This works and by the time I go back, she has fallen asleep. I still keep my promise and go back in 20 minutes and kiss her but if she's asleep by this time, is this my fault????.......

Good luck.

Charliecat - been thinking about you this week - hope the good nights have continued for you. Sorry, can't think of anything to add to all the great suggestions here. Ds1 used to be bad during the night - kept getting up. For us putting him in a top bunk (at 3.5) resolved things overnight (literally), as he then couldn't be bothered to get out of bed ...! But wouldn't help you if she's screaming/shouting from her bed.

Bozza - what do you mean by 'Maybe buy her a proper star chart now'? Am I being very thick? We use sticker/star charts all the time, but I've never bought one - didn't know you could?!

Thanks again for everyones advice. I must mention about the calender, because id just suggested the star chart before shedd went to bed the first night i didnt expect her to sleep through and ask for a sticker the next day, so when she did i said to stick it on the calender on the right day......but we did make her up a proper star chart on the computer and she filled both of them with 7 stickers!!! One week of peace...great we thought, and off we went to woolies and purchased a toy for the reward. I didnt even think about it last night, so used to the peace and quiet, and at about 10pm i heard her wake up, lots of whingy noises, and being so used to it just ignored it for about 1 min (id just tucked sleeping her in for the night and got into bed myself) her dad got up and just as he walked in her room she made a squealy noise and she had wet the bed not laying down asleep wet the bed.....squatting on purpose wet the bed.
Well, i said you cant sleep in the bed now its all wet bla bla bla....which of course started off " I want to sleep in my own bed" then " I need a drink" and 2 hours later after lots of up and downstairs she eventually shut up and went to sleep, not before a few smacks just because we are so sick of it and she WILL NOT do as she is told.
I layed in bed and contemplated suicide briefly, but thought no i wont be driven to that you %$£"£%%&^& hairyated little child( laughing about it now), and i have got my mum to pick her up from school and have her for the night as i think i would kill her if she did the same thing again tonight.
My mum has found one of those big water proof matress covers so i can at least save the matress from any future damage......anyway..... i think if i asked her and she answered...she always replys with " I dont know" when asked why she screams etc etc......she would say that the reason she peed in the bed was because we told her to stay in the bed...and therefore...she had to pee in the bed.But she only ever replys i dont know to such questions so ill never know.
There we go folks the story continued, at least ill have some peace tonight i will see what happens over night with my mum. I will probably resort to a weekly starchart if i really have to, but she seems to need to let of this aggression ....any ideas on that. I have thought a trampoline....to bounce some grouch out of her....by the way she has never had a temper tantrum at nursery or scholl and the reports have all been impecable behavoiur...and i am consistent.....Help...anyone want a xtra child?!

Free p and p....sorry have to add some humour, but its so not funny